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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#411

Post by nvarsj »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #168
jaegerpicker wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often I find a number of great engineers that the big 5 disqualify for two main reasons: Location or Education. The big 5 tend to not allow remote work and if you don't have a college degree it's often hella hard to get an interview.

But the Big5 have tons of locations. Amazon in particular has tech centers in places like Phoenix and Detroit, while Google is in Chicago. Microsoft is even in Fargo! Unless you want to be a digital nomad I guess. Then it’s probably not ideal, but I do know some fully remote positions exist at the L6 level at Amazon.

I'm pretty sure they all pay less outside of their HQ location. At least in London, salaries are significantly less for the equivalent role.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#412

Post by lossforajob »

jboy55 wrote: post #145
shamino wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I joined a moderately successful startup (good acquisition where founders made > $1 m) and the rewards were not worth the risks as an early employee. Also, the RSUs are low risk, high rewards at the "usual suspects". Unless you love working on a small team with more autonomy, but without comfortable resources and losing sleep over whether your company will be there next week, I just don't see the attraction of…

Just be warned, a startup often has the promise of more autonomy, but there are plenty of startups run by ego-centric micromanaging wanna-be engineers. Be careful equating, 'being able to talk to the CEO' as autonomy, you may find yourself having to explain your decisions/code to people who's engineering skills are 'being able to convince a VC to give them money'. You'll also probably not tackle 'large problems' but…

My experiences from startups have been underwhelming for reasons similar to yours. I haven't been part of an autocratic ego-centric management, but I still felt like I didn't deliver any real impact. I was just told to fix bugs, close tickets, etc. Same cog in a machine feel but without the benefit of working closely with people to mentor you.

In the last startup I was in, even though we're in a team of only 3 engineers, implementing design changes was an uphill battle. The senior engineer lives in Eastern Europe so communication time was difficult, and he had a very impractical way of doing things (preferred his own hand-made JavaScript framework over third parties, no modules, no integrated testing). These things lead to making myself a harder sell for companies that follow less unorthodox software development practices.

Yeah, they can often be more freeform, but also by giving you the illusion that you can flip things around, or be a big fish in a small pond. Being that big fish is not good if the pond itself stinks.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#413

Post by cortesoft »

BrainInAJar wrote: post #349
cortesoft wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a huge part of whether it is more fun or not is about where you are in life. Startup life was great for me when I was young and single, and enjoyed the startup lifestyle of excitement and risk. Now that I am older and have a wife and kid, I really like the stability, predictability, and salary of a job with a bigger company.

Also who you are in life. When I was younger I didn't have chances. It's incredibly privileged to be able to take a position somewhere you might not have a job in 2 months because you have enough stashed away or enough family wealth that if you fail, you can pick yourself back up easily.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to imply it is just about stage of your life in terms of age and family status, but more just your stage of your life in terms of financial needs and tolerance for risk. For some people that need for lower risk and financial stability comes when they are older, and for some people they start out needing that financial stability at a young age.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#414

Post by tarikjn »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #22

Having not worked in the Valley or a startup, I can say the biggest con to me is a lack of stability. You can get a job at BigCo or even MediumSizedButBeenAroundTwoDecadesCo and be reasonably sure you'll still have a job... as long as you want to work there. But with a startup, either they run out of money and you lose your job, they pivot and don't need you and you lose your job, or they get acquired and you very li…

I know of at least one successful entrepreneur/investor who does exactly this with his incubator: incubator/umbrella company hires FT employees who get contracted to the startups and receive stock in the startups proportional to the time spent on each.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#415

Post by eismcc »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #25

Open plan offices and general lack of a quiet, contemplative, professional working environment is the hugest con to me, even huger than the compensation issues pointed out by other commentors. I would look to start-ups to be leading the effort to improve industry practices for software development ergonomy and human-centric working spaces (i.e. focus on privacy, quiet and individual customizability). But instead, sta…

Private offices are great, sort of. I haven’t had one in the last 15yrs in both big and small companies. I find it surprising that you have had access to this “benefit.”

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#416

Post by kcorbitt »

makeramen wrote: post #384

While I absolutely agree with the comp aspect and think that's probably the biggest point, I want to add that management skill is also a huge factor. I've seen a lot of startups (YC and otherwise) fail to grow the team well because the founders are good hackers but not good managers. In a large company your manager has a manager who will help guide and review them, and you can switch teams without risking your curren…

> Some way to try out/transfer between startups who allow it would be awesome.

This is a fantastic idea that I really think we should explore within the YC ecosystem!

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#417

Post by dsnuh »

ironjunkie wrote: post #397
dmode wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FAANGS give you RSUs, which are cash equivalent. When I am referring to 400K, I am referring to "total cash in hand" at the end of the year. Generally the comp you get quoted when you get hired is $200K base + $200K in RSUs based on hire date's stock price. So in today's frothy stock market, you would at least earn $400K and possibly more.

that's what I'm saying. I'm clarifying that the value of the RSU is when you got them at the time of the offer. Not at the time you sell it or vest it.

The value of an unvested RSU is a very tricky thing. I had to try to value my potential RSU benefits when I got divorced. It's not the same as a stock option where even if you leave, you have an asset that you can still purchase at the contract price. RSUs are little more than a promise that at point in time X, company promises to release Y stocks to you. I'm pretty sure you could argue that RSUs have zero value until released to you.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#418

Post by manigandham »

sidlls wrote: post #379
manigandham wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a very narrow view of startups if you think that's how they all operate. Many many companies never raise money. Many founders are unpaid, or just paid the bare minimum legally allowed. And numbers alone do not tell of the significant social and psychological pressures while employees can always quit and go work somewhere elsewhere. Even successful acquisitions don't guarantee riches to founders and that's co…

"while employees can always quit and go work somewhere elsewhere." This is an exaggeration at best. For the vast majority of employees there is a lead time to begin employment at most places. Typically this will be a minimum of one month (interviews + decision + org readiness to onboard). By the way, it applies equally to founders as you describe (anecdotally I've seen a number of founders get regular jobs while they…

How is that an exaggeration? I talked about the ability for them to go to another company. Founders cannot just leave and have a much greater lead time if they lose it all.

What social connections do you think founders get that employees somehow dont? And what is this worth? So founding a company and losing everything is fine because you make some friends? If you talk to any entrepreneurs, you'll quickly realize you'll lose more friends and connections than you gain, precisely because of lack of time and ability to relate. It's a very lonely road, not some glamorous jet-setting adventure.

What's absurd is thinking that starting a company is just some hobby that is no different than any normal job. Until you actually do it, it's easy to overlook the incredible personal investment and stress it takes to put something together from nothing. Most companies fail, and many do not raise capital or have some quick meteoric rise but rather suffer through years of trying to make it work. The upside for founders is incredibly rare while the downsides are very common. Employees get paid either way.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#419

Post by jonmb »

faang_emp_1 wrote: post #374
jonmb wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these engineers at Facebook/Google/etc. working the typical 40 hour work week or more like 60-80?

Obviously a throwaway account, but I work at Facebook, on an infrastructure team. I average ~45 hours/week, except for the week I'm oncall, which is about every three months. I probably work 60 hours that week. I get in early (7:30am) and leave early (3 or 3:30), and sometimes I'll review diffs at night, but normally my laptop stays in my trunk when I'm at home. I work hard when I'm at work, and really focus. I don't…

Thanks for the response. Sometimes I get the impression that engineers are killing themselves doing nothing but work with occasional sleep, so it's good to hear you're around 45 hours.
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