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USB Type-C is still a mess

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Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#161

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

digi_owl wrote: post #101
thfuran wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, so a USB-C cable cannot be a completely passive component?

Yes and no. There is no IC in there, but there are small segment in the cable spec that talks about resistors on one of the lines that signal the type of cable available. So you put one resistor in for a low rated C to C cable, another for a higher C to C rated, and yet another for an A to C converter (indicating that the C end should fall back to the older battery charging spec). Guess how many fly by night cable ma…

Power Delivery is not just for USB-C. It was defined for use with USB 2.0 and up on any of the legacy connectors.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#162

Post by Tijdreiziger »

themagician wrote: post #116

Maybe it's just me, but I've had zero major issues with USB-C and can't imagine going back. I spent maybe $100 on new cables so I have one or two of everything. I only wish they had USB-C hubs so I could drop the USB Type-A connectors all together. I honestly find it much easier. The simplicity of just not having to flip he connector around 3 times every time you plug something in alone is worth it. It can be a littl…

Who wants to spend $100 on cables?

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#163

Post by djsumdog »

USB-C /w DisplayPort seems to work really well for monitors. If you have a monitor that can output a good amount of voltage, it is quite literally the only connector you need.

At work the only cable connected to my MacBook Pro (running Linux) is a USB-C thunderbolt cable to a monitor which connects all my standard USB-A devices (keyboard, mouse, hub, flash, drives, etc.)

At home I can do the same thing with my HP Spectre or Dell XPS 15 and an LG monitor (XPS complains about voltage, but it still charges).

Viewsonic even has USB-C monitors that are KVMs too. You plug in your keyboard and mouse to the monitor and it will switch them on input select.

Ultimately I'd really like to see a pure USB-C KVM that support DisplayPort 1.4 (no KVM does this currently) so you could have laptop power and full 4k+10Bit all from one cable.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#164

Post by notatoad »

jrockway wrote: post #54

I remember arguing with people when Type-C was new; they told me it would change the world, I told them it would never work. The problem is... they made everything optional, and thus when a user sees a Type-C port, they have no idea what to expect. Will it work with a device that requires Thunderbolt? Will it drive a DisplayPort monitor? Will this charger charge their laptop? Will this charger charge their phone? The…

"it depends" is a fine answer for whether a device supports something. that's how USB-A/B worked. you didn't know if the device supported quick charging, worked at better than USB 1.1 speed, or even if it supported data transfer. there's lots of power-only USB devices.

But you at least could make a fair assumption that the cable you were trying to use supported all of that (beyond the rare power-only cables). For me the real killer with USB-C is the wide variety of cables that all look physically identical. it's fairly easy to keep track of what features a computer, phone, or peripheral has. but having to keep track of which features each cable supports is a huge pain in the ass. It means i can't just have a box of random USB cables on my shelf, and grab one when i need one.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#165

Post by Johnny555 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #129
digi_owl wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the latter part have caught some people unaware, where a battery pack and a phone will ping pong who is charging who until both are dead.

> And the latter part have caught some people unaware, where a battery pack and a phone will ping pong who is charging who until both are dead. Or, if you're really unlucky, it'll attempt to charge your wall. No, I'm not joking: https://twitter.com/chimeracoder/status/941820122406064128

Sounds like a good way to steal power from work -- charge up your phone at the office and supply power to your wall outlet when you come home.

:-)

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#166

Post by reaperducer »

lopmotr wrote: post #153
reaperducer wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there will be a nice docking station sometime, but for now, it's dongle city, and picking up the laptop a bit to connect/disconnect each one every time I transition between mobile and desktop-replacement. That's not unique to USB-C. My MacBook has no USB-C ports, just the previous gen. But right now has power, external hard drive, headphones, HDMI and a mouse plugged into it. When I transition to mobile, I'll h…

What if there was a dongle that securely clipped/glued onto the bottom of the computer so it feels like it's part of it? You'd never remove it and it would simply become a bigger computer with all the ports you want. Just like if the computer maker had put all those ports there in the first place. I used to use a 3rd party battery that had double the capacity of the factory battery but stuck out the bottom. It double…

>I used to use a 3rd party battery that had double the capacity of the factory battery but stuck out the bottom. It doubled as a small tilt-stand. No cables or ever removing it like you would an external battery pack.

I have something like that now for my MacBook Air. I think it's called a Chug Plug, or something like that. Instead of using Apple's ever-changing computer-side plug, it has the very-stable-so-far electrical socket end connection. So you pop the little regional adapter off your laptop's wall wart and attach the wall wart to the portable battery so it works with every laptop Apple's made this century.

Heavy as hell, but works well.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#167

Post by wvenable »

magduf wrote: post #156
imran3740 wrote: post #27

> Port shortages Would it hurt anyone to put two USB-C ports on a smartphone? Thank goodness my phone still has a 3.5mm jack, but some people would like to charge their phone and listen to (wired) audio without having to buy an adapter. And it's not like this is an uncommon use case either, anecdotally some of my friends with iPhones face this issue.

You're not supposed to charge and listen to wired audio without an adapter. You're supposed to use bluetooth headphones called "AirPods", which cost far, far more than regular wired headphones. If you don't like this and resent being pushed to buy very expensive accessories and dongles, then maybe Apple isn't the company for you.

What's the explanation for every other phone company removing the ports? No phone manufacturer benefited financially from the purchase of my Bluetooth headphones.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#168

Post by mmagin »

chx wrote: post #136
exmadscientist wrote: post #22

Speaking as someone in the industry who's worked on Type C-enabled gadgets, half the bloody problem is that the Type C products offered by the major semiconductor companies are _terrible_. For sake of a simple example, consider designing a rechargeable flashlight. For whatever reason, you'd like it to be rechargeable over a USB-C port. You also want the flashlight to charge as fast as possible from whatever power sou…

There's no innovation in this sector. It needed Apple to kick Ti's sorry ass to get us to Ti 83 even instead of the Ti 82. It says quite a lot every Thunderbolt enclosure uses this chip: there are no other USB PD controllers (USB PD is used to negotiate Alternate Modes). Another example: you can buy a small and cheap USB C to DisplayPort adapter with power passthrough (< 20 USD). You can buy a (relatively) small and…

Is this because of patents, or is this because nobody wants to do the R&D?

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#169

Post by OnMyPhone »

slouch wrote: post #21
sparrish wrote: post #10

I disagree. It's not a mess. It works well. So much better than USB 2.0. I don't have to try to 'key' it correctly when plugging it in and the connections are fast and 'just work'.

I agree. My device charges faster, and I haven't had any issues with cables not working.

So far the only issues I've had with USB C is that I had to buy a Nintendo USB C cable to charge my switch and a separate USB C cable wouldn't charge my Pixel. It did work with an external hard drive so I know the cable wasn't completely broken.

I know there's other cables from some brands that might have worked, but after the 3rd one that wouldn't work for my switch I went for Nintendo.

I don't have a lot of USB C devices yet, so I'm hoping they get things ironed out.

Re: USB Type-C is still a mess

#170

Post by Tloewald »

extralego wrote: post #42
exmadscientist wrote: post #22

Speaking as someone in the industry who's worked on Type C-enabled gadgets, half the bloody problem is that the Type C products offered by the major semiconductor companies are _terrible_. For sake of a simple example, consider designing a rechargeable flashlight. For whatever reason, you'd like it to be rechargeable over a USB-C port. You also want the flashlight to charge as fast as possible from whatever power sou…

Wouldn't there always be companies trying to sell the cheapest qualifier? Wouldn't the expensive products you mention that "might work" become more affordable if they were manufactured at a higher rate? (But maybe they aren't because they are harder to sell) >I am confident that Type-C's market penetration will skyrocket as soon as the difficulty and cost of actually integrating it into a product reaches sane levels.…

The cost of crappy things that don't solve the problem described which leads to the mess we're complaining about is low, yes.
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