I don't know if I've been unlucky twice, but I think the biggest problem I see with working at a startup is the lack of transparency on runway and the security of whatever form of compensation I am getting. Twice now (in 2 diff companies) I have been stuck in the position of finding out with only a few days' notice that paychecks are not getting wired and we're hunting an investor to bail us out. Somehow it has becom…
Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?
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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?
#42Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?
#43- accelerated responsibility, especially early in career
- making something new
- little bureaucracy
- credentials matter less
- can be more fun
Cons:
- typically inexperienced, inept management
- longer hours, higher instability, and lower comp even if the startup pays off. Not quite the worst of all worlds but it's getting there.
- lack of transparency about cap table and what options are worth. 90% of my colleagues don’t even know about liquidation preferences. We expect early employees to make investor-level decisions with employee-level information
- exits are rare or perpetually delayed. even acquisitions may mean nothing if you aren’t a good fit at the acquiring bigco and are let go before vesting (and if you were a fit, why were you at a startup?)
- chaos, stress
- typically hostile environment for URMs, monthly HR disasters
- distorting effects of investor prejudices, expectations
- SFBA-centricity; locks out the vast majority of founders and potential employees, and very high costs for early startup employees
You asked for solutions but I doubt many of these are easily fixable. Maybe we have to accept that startups just aren't a rational career path to maximize wealth. And especially for Americans, it's incredibly risky to try a startup, unless you come from a very privileged background.
The fact that startups are chaotic and run by inexperienced people seems to be a given. Unless you go to a "studio" model where you have a stable team of professionals spinning out startup-like projects all the time. Some people are trying that but IDK if it's ever worked.
Transparency about how funding and options work would be trivial to solve. But the founders, board, and investors all have the incentive to keep it hard to understand. But maybe YC could set new norms here, somehow.
It might help if YC's alumni network included more URMs. I know you're trying to fix that.
And maybe this is harder but at least at the startups I've worked at, there's been a lot of wasted effort simply in order to satisfy what various investors want this month. But I've never worked for a YC company so maybe it's better there.
One possible mitigating factor to all of the above would be for the whole startup ecosystem to be more remote-friendly. The compensation starts to make sense if you have nationalized healthcare and don't have to pay SFBA rent and aren't in the running for other SFBA jobs anyway.
Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?
#44Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?
#45On the matter of working at a startup:
PROS:
- You have a much larger impact on the product. Often times you may be working solo on a very significant part of the product. If you enjoy this feeling of autonomy, this is a major plus.
I list this as a major PLUS because at the large company I worked for, I felt like a "cog in the wheel". I could easily be replaced. Despite doing good work, I was just one of many who could do the same work. I could only "own" a small portion of the application.
- You have a chance to make money on the exit. Assuming you got stock options as part of your hiring agreement.
CONS:
- Jack of all trades, master of none.
You will be asked to wear multiple hats. In my case that has meant I was hired to do one X, but actually ended up doing Y, and Z in addition to some X. Specifically, that meant learning new programming languages, new domains, etc.
I list this as a major CON. While it can be very good to learn new languages / domains, I think you should do this on your own "track". Learning a new programing language on the job, especially at a startup, can be quite stressful when you're expected to also PRODUCE.
On the other hand, learning it on the job can give you some of the most practical experience in the shortest amount of time. So this one can be a double edged sword. In general, if you are YOUNG in your career, this is GOOD. If you are middle, to late in your career, avoid a startup for this reason. (Don't stop learning. Rather, find a mastery of one domain, and make that your day job while keeping up your abilities in other areas).
- On all the time. Your coworkers will be working weekends. That can mean that when you aren't working, you feel like you should be.
- You'll never feel like you can take a vacation. Take them anyways. But you will feel guilty, and like you're asking a lot to take a week here or there. At a big company, this is "PTO" and you either have the days available, or you don't. Take the time if you have it, because you have a large team that can cover for you.
- You'll never feel like you can leave, as the business hugely depends on you.
Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?
#46I can’t think of any pros. Most startups I worked at had long hours and shitty pay, with a hefty dose of koolaid. Most lacked any sort of business plan besides “raise more money”. Stock options at startups are worthless, since there’s no market for them and the terms are terrible. Why make $90k at a startup with some worthless options, when you can work at an established company for $150k+ and get options that are al…
vs working at one of the big companies and doing fuck all.
Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?
#47Just a few cons.... The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. Equity grants for early…
>The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. I can second this. But it's not just the m…
Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?
#48Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?
#49Just a few cons.... The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. Equity grants for early…
Agree. Paysa is off their rocker for ranking the comp from a private company like Uber vs the comp from a public company like Google. ( https://www.paysa.com/company-rank ) RSU grants from big public companies are the new/old way to get ahead in tech.
Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?
#50You vest slow, you may be fired before they vest, hell, the company may go under before they are even worth something.
Take the money.
Or take stock a few times and learn the lesson the hard way.