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Alternatives to Google Products

restoreprivacy.com

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Re: Alternatives to Google Products

#281

Post by robbrown451 »

blub wrote: post #220
robbrown451 wrote: post #209

So I'm one of those who doesn't care if Google tracks me or sells me as a product. [ * ] Is there actually some real, tangible harm that can come to me from using Google products? Not theoretical stuff, not stuff that is less likely than dying in a plane crash. Something that is actually likely to happen, that will affect me in measurable, negative ways? I'm really trying to come up with something, and I'm really try…

Has it become some sort of fashion statement to be ignorant about privacy? Whenever I discuss this topic people seem to almost take pride in giving their information to Google, Facebook and the thousands of other companies they have no clue about. I think it's cognitive dissonance rearing its ugly head again: those people have tied their identity at some level with the use of the products and an attack on e.g. Google…

I'm ignorant, I suppose, because you are unwilling or unable to list a single tangible potential harm. Home invasion? Please explain how Google tracking me is going to help a home invader.

Or are you talking about me posting stuff on Facebook? Because that's a very, very different thing.

Re: Alternatives to Google Products

#282

Post by some_account »

craftyguy wrote: post #231
zbraniecki wrote: post #224

Hi all, I'm an engineer working on Firefox Platform (Gecko). In the linked blog post, the author recommends Firefox (thanks!) and links to a "privacy recommendations" for it, which include items such as "resistFingerprinting" settings. I'd like to remind everyone that turning on this setting has far fetched consequences to how you experience the Web. Your dates, timezones, preferred languages will all be masked which…

Yea, maybe you should prioritize 'ironing' it out.

This feature is not even part of the UI yet. It's in progress. I really don't understand why technical people would start recommending its use to others on blogs in its current state. All you create is lots of bug reports coming in to Mozilla, forcing them to put resources into responding to users who blindly followed the blog and now their Firefox is "not working" anymore.

Re: Alternatives to Google Products

#283

Post by catwell »

Regarding Youtube, the article does not mention PeerTube, which is in beta today and is crowdfunding through a highly trusted French non-profit (Framasoft): https://www.kisskissbankbank.com/en/projects/peertube-a-free...

You can try it out at https://peertube.cpy.re

Former discussions on HN:

- About the crowdfunding: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17153023

- About Peertube: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16714453

Re: Alternatives to Google Products

#284

Post by cashel »

mailbomb wrote: post #40

Besides the Gmails alternatives: 1. Mailfence – Based in Belgium – 500 MB free; 20 GB Pro 2. Tutanota – Based in Germany – 1 GB free; 10 GB Pro 3. Mailbox.org – Based in Germany – 2 GB storage 4. Protonmail – Based in Switzerland – 500 MB free; 5 GB Pro 5. * * Runbox.com - Based in Norway * * They forgot #5, runbox.com

+1 for Tutanota, love the fact that you can sign-up without a phone number: https://tutanota.com/blog/posts/anonymous-email

Re: Alternatives to Google Products

#285

Post by robbrown451 »

bennofs wrote: post #229
robbrown451 wrote: post #209

So I'm one of those who doesn't care if Google tracks me or sells me as a product. [ * ] Is there actually some real, tangible harm that can come to me from using Google products? Not theoretical stuff, not stuff that is less likely than dying in a plane crash. Something that is actually likely to happen, that will affect me in measurable, negative ways? I'm really trying to come up with something, and I'm really try…

Then you must assume one of: * No one can get access to Google's data * Those who can get access cannot harm you In addition to trusting google not to be evil. What are your assumptions that lead you to that conclusion? Or are you assuming that no matter who has access to your data, there is no one could ever do any harm to you with that data? (That's the 'I have nothing to hide' argument)

I think Google has a very strong incentive to protect my data from that sort of thing, and a lot of layers to ensure this. One rogue employee can't get access to my email. Why? Because if it happened and the press got wind of it, Google would see their market cap drop tens of millions of dollars overnight.

Meanwhile, why should I trust that that guy living on the sidewalk won't jump up and bash my head with a hammer? Or that the person driving the car in the opposite lane won't swerve into my lane and kill me? I just try to keep risks in perspective.

Re: Alternatives to Google Products

#286

Post by Sir_Substance »

some_account wrote: post #282
craftyguy wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, maybe you should prioritize 'ironing' it out.

This feature is not even part of the UI yet. It's in progress. I really don't understand why technical people would start recommending its use to others on blogs in its current state. All you create is lots of bug reports coming in to Mozilla, forcing them to put resources into responding to users who blindly followed the blog and now their Firefox is "not working" anymore.

>I really don't understand why technical people would start recommending its use to others on blogs in its current state.

Because when ordinary users ask "what can I do to protect my privacy?" you have two possible answers:

a) "Nothing, you're not smart enough to do this, you're screwed"

b) "These things"

B has a high learning curve, but telling people about it scares them off. If you care about your friends privacy and want to get them past that learning curve, it's better to let them stumble into issues and be there to answer questions.

Re: Alternatives to Google Products

#287

Post by bad_user »

MatekCopatek wrote: post #250

After convincing myself to do this kind of a switch, I noticed the experience using open protocols (IMAP, CardDAV and CalDAV) on Android isn't perfect. First of all, I had to buy a 3rd party app that does CardDAV and CalDAV syncing, because unlike iOS, Android doesn't support it natively. Secondly, IMAP doesn't come close to what I was used to with Gmail. And I'm not talking about the lack of good global search, I me…

> First of all, I had to buy a 3rd party app that does CardDAV and CalDAV syncing, because unlike iOS, Android doesn't support it natively.

Android is made by Google and they now have an interest in not promoting open protocols. They are no longer the underdog, so it's in their best interest to push their proprietary protocols. It doesn't always work, the former Google Talk was great because it was light and compatible with XMPP, it all went to shit after Hangouts happened and I'm glad that Hangouts is almost dead.

Either way, you need to recognize that if Android doesn't work well with CardDAV / CalDAV, that's a problem that Google is creating.

> IMAP doesn't come close to what I was used to with Gmail. And I'm not talking about the lack of good global search, I mean the general responsiveness when reading emails. No matter which client I use.

If you're using Gmail, again, that's not fair because their IMAP implementation isn't that great. I haven't had any problems with iOS's Mail or with MailMate (https://freron.com/), in combination with FastMail.

Speaking of which, I use MailMate with my Gmail accounts too, because I love it and all third-party email apps work better with FastMail, because Gmail's IMAP is not standard; e.g. labels are IMAP folders instead of IMAP keywords, so you get duplicate emails and the client needs to do tricks to reconcile the two.

I also use Gmail accounts on iOS and Gmail doesn't do push email on iOS (FastMail does), but I don't mind it so much to be honest. I don't like being bombarded with notifications, so if email notifications from Gmail are a minute late, it doesn't matter.

And it should go without saying that if you want push notifications on Android's Gmail app, then you can't use IMAP. I don't know of any good solutions for Android, I was a user of K9 because it's open source and does push notifications for IMAP, but it's not great.

And now I'm an iOS user because it has better support for open protocols, even if I was a die hard Android fan. I might reconsider for my next phone, I might get back to Android, but when I do, I'll factor in the cost of using open protocols, because it's Android's fault for IMAP, CardDAV and CalDAV not working well.

Re: Alternatives to Google Products

#288

Post by robbrown451 »

TheCabin wrote: post #271
robbrown451 wrote: post #209

So I'm one of those who doesn't care if Google tracks me or sells me as a product. [ * ] Is there actually some real, tangible harm that can come to me from using Google products? Not theoretical stuff, not stuff that is less likely than dying in a plane crash. Something that is actually likely to happen, that will affect me in measurable, negative ways? I'm really trying to come up with something, and I'm really try…

Okay, let’s think about some side effects of having lots of potentially sensitive data nicely stored at one location: * Propaganda: Because you understand what people need to hear, it’s a perfect tool to influence opinion. Of course, this doesn’t happen in your country (it never does). A recent popular example is the Cambridge Analytica scandal. Thankfully this evil cooperation does not exist any more (by changing it…

I don't see how any of this applies to Google. Are you saying that dictators can steal my data from Google?

I'd think they'd have an easier time breaking into my house and stealing my computer. By a factor of maybe a thousand.

Re: Alternatives to Google Products

#289

Post by zarex »

majewsky wrote: post #251
grumdan wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that this is what happened and I don't know the background of this story, but it would have been easy (technically speaking) to just push an update to Chinese users that will extract their private key and send it back to Apple without any significant changes.

AFAIK the Secure Enclave chip is specifically designed to make this impossible. There is no planned method to extract the private key from it. ("Planned method" meaning anything that's not an exploit or an electron microscope.)

Maybe generate the key in the normal processor, send it to apple for escrow, and then push the key to the secure enclave? I have no idea whether the secure enclave supports loading existing keys, but generally this is how it's done.

Re: Alternatives to Google Products

#290

Post by robbrown451 »

bobsoap wrote: post #275
blub wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it become some sort of fashion statement to be ignorant about privacy? Whenever I discuss this topic people seem to almost take pride in giving their information to Google, Facebook and the thousands of other companies they have no clue about. I think it's cognitive dissonance rearing its ugly head again: those people have tied their identity at some level with the use of the products and an attack on e.g. Google…

I find I'm having trouble arguing in a meaningful way with people who don't share the same concerns regarding the privacy of their data. I'm running out of arguments - no matter what I say, they'll respond with a shrug. "So what? I don't have anything to hide." "So what? They are a big company, surely they won't abuse my data." "So what? How has Cambridge Analytica affected me?" And for the ultimate capitulation: "So…

You deal with that by giving an actual example of something bad that has happened to someone who has not worried about what Google tracking them. I haven't seen one.

I mean, people who advise me not to text and drive can give real examples of people who died because they did that. That's tangible. All I hear is a lot of people telling me what I should care about but refuse to supply anything but intangibles and theoreticals.

And I'm talking about Google here, not Facebook.

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