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How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

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Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#61

Post by badminton1 »

jordigh wrote: post #27

I know this is a bit petty, but I've stared to resent a little that even though I'm Mexican, I'm not considered Western. What am I, then? Eastern? Central? Southern? I'm not just arguing about the geography, but about the culture. I feel much more like a Canadian or a USian (or a Guatemalan) than I feel like an African, Middle Easter, East Asian, or South Asian. I speak the same languages as Europe, have been mostly…

English and French colonists did not mix a lot with other races, unlike Spanish colonists. There are many exceptions, like the Métis in Canada, but that did not happen very often.

Later, the US and Canada received various waves of immigrants from Europe, making multi-racial people an even smaller portion of the population.

In recent years, multi-racial couples have increased. This happened mostly because interracial unions were illegal in some states (examples include Virginia's Racial Integrity Act of 1924) until a US Supreme Court ruling invalidated that and any similar laws.

That being said, what is considered "Western" or "white" has changed over time. For instance, Italians and Irish were once not considered white. Honestly, it's not important and I strongly recommend you to stop worrying about that.

I highly recommend these links if you want to explore cultural differences between US and Mexico:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuHqSHZyUMc

- https://archinect.com/tacos/casa-vs-house-differences-in-us-...

Personally I think Mexico's top priority is get rid of its pseudo caste system, dominated by the descendants of Hacienda owners, nepotism and corruption.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#62

Post by noobermin »

jordigh wrote: post #27

I know this is a bit petty, but I've stared to resent a little that even though I'm Mexican, I'm not considered Western. What am I, then? Eastern? Central? Southern? I'm not just arguing about the geography, but about the culture. I feel much more like a Canadian or a USian (or a Guatemalan) than I feel like an African, Middle Easter, East Asian, or South Asian. I speak the same languages as Europe, have been mostly…

You did say the Mayans are foreign to you. This article is specifically about their culture, not broader Mexican culture.

Can you expand why you want to be considered to be Western? I don't, even though I live in the US and face discrimination (sometimes) because of it.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#63

Post by baxtr »

jordigh wrote: post #27

I know this is a bit petty, but I've stared to resent a little that even though I'm Mexican, I'm not considered Western. What am I, then? Eastern? Central? Southern? I'm not just arguing about the geography, but about the culture. I feel much more like a Canadian or a USian (or a Guatemalan) than I feel like an African, Middle Easter, East Asian, or South Asian. I speak the same languages as Europe, have been mostly…

If you want to use words to differentiate, there have to be some break points. The same could be asked by Russian. They are mostly of Christian Faith, and, speak a language that is very similar to some European languages.

If I remember right, Huntington (Clash of Civilizations) introduced the Ukraine, Turkey and Australia as countries that needed to make a decision which part they wanted to belong to finally. Maybe, one could argue that Mexico is in a similar spot.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#64

Post by DoreenMichele »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #59
DoreenMichele wrote: post #35

"The Mexican-American kids, aged 6 to 7, were doing about twice as much around the house as the middle-class European-American kids, on average," It's implied but not outright stated in the above quote: We are talking about households that are much, much poorer on average than "middle-class European-American kids." This is backed up by the photos in the article. So, if you have nothing else to do because your parents…

> poorer cultures wind up naturally more people centered than richer cultures, which wind up more thing centered Source? Comparing Switzerland to the United States, and even within the United States, wealthy versus lower-income regions, I found lower to mid-middle class households to possess a more-pronounced attachment to possessions than households higher up. (Partly because attaining those things may have involved…

I was not thinking of deprived families within a wealthy country. I was thinking of indigenous cultures and less developed countries.

I have taken formal study in things like social psychology, I have read a lot and I have traveled and had friends in various countries or regions. I can't cite a specific source that says that. Some of it is personal observation.

In the US, the Deep South where I grew up has historically been poorer than the rest of the US. Bringing the South in line with wages for the rest of the country was part of the impetus for establishing a federal minimum wage. The South is also much more people-centric. Some people interpret this as warm and friendly. Others view it as nosy, busybody and butt-in-sky.

I was taken advantage of by someone from a less developed country. It occurred to me after the fact that in countries where physical labor and human knowledge are primary forms of capital, people are treated as potential resources in a way they are not here. The way I was used and mistreated was incredibly calculated and I can't imagine most Americans thinking that way about another human being. Which isn't to say we are better, just to say the thought process was sufficiently alien that it took me a long time to recognise it.

If you read history, military campaigns were viewed differently than they are today. When you conquered land, you wanted to wrest it from the hands of the rulers while not overly alienating the peasants. This is because the peasants were the means to work the land. You couldn't go in with a tractor and a handful of people and grow crops. If you didn't get people with the land who were inclined to be reasonably cooperative, you didn't really gain anything, in part because local knowledge was critical to successfully farm. It was also very labor intensive and it fostered attitudes and policies that modern Americans can't really fathom.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#66

Post by jacobolus »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #58
jordigh wrote: post #27

I know this is a bit petty, but I've stared to resent a little that even though I'm Mexican, I'm not considered Western. What am I, then? Eastern? Central? Southern? I'm not just arguing about the geography, but about the culture. I feel much more like a Canadian or a USian (or a Guatemalan) than I feel like an African, Middle Easter, East Asian, or South Asian. I speak the same languages as Europe, have been mostly…

> Mayans and I are by now part of the greater western world "Western" is used as short-hand for the cultures "that have some origin or association with Europe. The term also applies beyond Europe to countries and cultures whose histories are strongly connected to Europe by immigration, colonization, or influence." Modern Mexican culture could be argued to be "Western". It would be difficult, on the other hand, to arg…

> difficult, on the other hand, to argue Maya culture is Western.

At this point, many of the younger generation of Maya are quite western, at least in Mexico (go to university to become doctors or engineers, live in the city (or are urbanizing their communities), wear blue jeans and makeup and basketball shoes, listen to rap music, build houses with flush toilets and big TVs, drive SUVs, post to facebook from their smartphones, etc.), and their children absolutely will be. Their grandparents who only speak their indigenous language, are illiterate, spent their careers as migrant agricultural workers, etc. were not “western” except insofar as the broader western political system shaped their society and economy and ruthlessly exploited them.

> Using the term "USian" thus explicitly rejects one's affiliation with the United States.

In Mexico, the USA is called the Estados Unidos or EE.UU. The Mexican word for what you call “American” is “estado-unidense” (or maybe more commonly, “gringo”), and when writing in English, USian seems like a reasonable translation. Calling US citizens “americanos” sounds unnatural and presumptuous in Spanish [it doesn’t help that there is a lot of bad blood between Mexico and the USA, what with us starting an unjustified war and conquering/stealing half their country, something which is discussed thoroughly and bitterly in Mexican schoolbooks].

I think you are misinterpreting the grandparent poster intended based on your own biases. What the term “USian” rejects is not “one’s affiliation with the United States”, but rather it rejects the United States’s perceived imperialist claim to the whole western hemisphere. But the grandparent poster did not necessarily intend this rejection consciously, but may just be mirroring his own cultural context.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#67

Post by Reedx »

phodge wrote: post #32
gumby wrote: post #7

Resonating with a point in the article about telling kids "you're not involved in this task", I've noticed that my American neighbors are quite reluctant to allow their kids to use knives, light candles, fill glasses, and some cooking tasks that could result in a lot of mess. As what looks like a consequence those kids are rarely able to help get dinner on the table when they come over. An uncharitable explanation wo…

Lack of time is a huge factor. If you need to catch a bus to work at a specific time then you simply can't let the toddler drag out breakfast cleanup for an extra half hour.

Alternatively one can look at it as an investment that'll save time later.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#68

Post by rangibaby »

jordigh wrote: post #27

I know this is a bit petty, but I've stared to resent a little that even though I'm Mexican, I'm not considered Western. What am I, then? Eastern? Central? Southern? I'm not just arguing about the geography, but about the culture. I feel much more like a Canadian or a USian (or a Guatemalan) than I feel like an African, Middle Easter, East Asian, or South Asian. I speak the same languages as Europe, have been mostly…

I agree with you. I mostly see "Western" used as a synonym for "NATO". In addition to Mexico, there are countries in Europe (Russia) or democracies with huge economies (Japan, ROK, India, Brazil) that aren't described as Western.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#69

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jacobolus wrote: post #66
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mayans and I are by now part of the greater western world "Western" is used as short-hand for the cultures "that have some origin or association with Europe. The term also applies beyond Europe to countries and cultures whose histories are strongly connected to Europe by immigration, colonization, or influence." Modern Mexican culture could be argued to be "Western". It would be difficult, on the other hand, to arg…

> difficult, on the other hand, to argue Maya culture is Western. At this point, many of the younger generation of Maya are quite western, at least in Mexico (go to university to become doctors or engineers, live in the city (or are urbanizing their communities), wear blue jeans and makeup and basketball shoes, listen to rap music, build houses with flush toilets and big TVs, drive SUVs, post to facebook from their s…

> many of the younger generation of Maya are quite western

"Western" is a cultural label. One can be modern, educated, affluent and something to aspire to without being Western. Many modern Maya are Western. Maya culture is not.

> Calling US citizens “americanos” sounds unnatural and presumptuous in Spanish

I am making a point about a comment's English diction in a discussion we have carried out entirely in English.

> there is a lot of bad blood between Mexico and the USA

I don't object to the term in general. Just its usage in this argument. OP argues for a single cultural umbrella existing over Mexico and the United States. In the context of that argument, highlighting the divide isn't helpful.

Re: How Children in a Maya Village Do Chores

#70

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #69
jacobolus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> difficult, on the other hand, to argue Maya culture is Western. At this point, many of the younger generation of Maya are quite western, at least in Mexico (go to university to become doctors or engineers, live in the city (or are urbanizing their communities), wear blue jeans and makeup and basketball shoes, listen to rap music, build houses with flush toilets and big TVs, drive SUVs, post to facebook from their s…

> many of the younger generation of Maya are quite western "Western" is a cultural label. One can be modern, educated, affluent and something to aspire to without being Western. Many modern Maya are Western. Maya culture is not. > Calling US citizens “americanos” sounds unnatural and presumptuous in Spanish I am making a point about a comment's English diction in a discussion we have carried out entirely in English.…

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