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GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

amasad.me

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Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#51

Post by [deleted] »

onion2k wrote: post #24
sintaxi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privilege is what is UNEARNED and there is no way to qualify if those with open source contributions are more privileged than others. The very opposite could be true. The privileged can bounce from well paying job to the next with no OSS contributions while the underprivileged have to "show their value" in the harsh environment of open source. You're constructing the viewpoint you want others to see with no data or f…

I'm saying that being in a position to have spare time to work on open source is a sign of privilege, and that employers should recognize that when they're hiring. Some great developers work on open source projects, but equally some great developers don't. Open source contributions are not a useful filter.

[deleted]

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#52

Post by blattimwind »

onion2k wrote: post #24
sintaxi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privilege is what is UNEARNED and there is no way to qualify if those with open source contributions are more privileged than others. The very opposite could be true. The privileged can bounce from well paying job to the next with no OSS contributions while the underprivileged have to "show their value" in the harsh environment of open source. You're constructing the viewpoint you want others to see with no data or f…

I'm saying that being in a position to have spare time to work on open source is a sign of privilege, and that employers should recognize that when they're hiring. Some great developers work on open source projects, but equally some great developers don't. Open source contributions are not a useful filter.

> Open source contributions are not a useful filter.

OSS activity is a useful low-effort implicator. As usual for implications, denying the antecedent remains a fallacy.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#53

Post by tziki »

detaro wrote: post #41
janeroe wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> systemic biases against women in github pull requests Did you read your link? > The hypothesis is not only false, but it is in the opposite direction than expected; women tend to have their pull requests accepted at a higher rate than men! This difference is statistically significant

... unless they can be easily identified as women from their profile, at which point their acceptance rate drops.

The acceptance rate of both men and women dropped if they were identifiable as men or women. The study doesn't make any attempts to explain this.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#54

Post by watwut »

amasad wrote: post #40
gaius wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when you're young you frankly don't need a whole lot of sleep So, you are perpetuating ageism then. Let’s see how cocky you are in 10, 20, 30 years when you can’t get a job because of all the bloggers crowing about their Github profiles...

Since I'm talking about programming I'm also perpetuating ableism because you need to have functioning hands and eyes. I'm also perpetuating alivism because you need to be not dead.

Oldée currently full time emplyed programmers can perform programming work. They typically dont have github profile. Which is where your comparison fails.

You don't need to be young to code profesionally nor you need free time. Good job allows you to learn on the job. You need eyes and hands.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#56

Post by amelius »

vezycash wrote: post #20
onion2k wrote: post #10

The point people are making about using GitHub profiles for hiring is that it ignores great developers who don't write code outside of their job (that might be due to other interests, family responsibilities, a second job, whatever). The fact this guy is in a position to write code in his spare time just means he's not in that group, and the fact his open source work on Github specifically landed him a job he wanted…

I think a good way to end the debate on Github profiles is this: Github profiles are advertisement for programmers. Advertising requires resources - time, money, creativity and commitment and not every business is ready to pay to price. Sometimes advertising pays off, some times it doesn't. No police arrests a business owner for not advertising. Same with github profiles. Decide to have one, contribute a little, much…

Designers have portfolios. Would you do them away as "advertisements" as well? They are much more than that, e.g. they show the skills of the designer.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#57

Post by josteink »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #2

The author makes a valid point, however the pushback against using OSS as an important hiring signal, is that most people are not privileged with enough spare time to work on OSS outside of their day job. Eg if you have a family, long commute etc. And if they already are an excellent programmer and hitting all expectations, why should they do this? In fact, an employee who’s spending 5-6 hours/day on side projects mi…

> The author makes a valid point, however the pushback against using OSS as an important hiring signal, is that most people are not privileged with enough spare time to work on OSS outside of their day job.

Like most people I know, I use open source software in my day-to-day job even though I work in a company who provides proprietary software and services.

That means that when I do encounter errors or bugs in those open source components and libraries I can make the choice to either write workarounds locally in my code, or I can choose to submit patches back upstream.

That’s not a matter of privilege. That’s a matter of choice.

I also think it’s reflective of a developer’s attitude: does he prefer things done “properly”, or will he just hack together something which works? Will he share his solutions or not?

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#58

Post by detaro »

tziki wrote: post #53
detaro wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... unless they can be easily identified as women from their profile, at which point their acceptance rate drops.

The acceptance rate of both men and women dropped if they were identifiable as men or women. The study doesn't make any attempts to explain this.

Yes, and the one of women drops below the one of men, and that's clearly what the initial reference to the paper was talking about.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#59

Post by reitanqild »

amelius wrote: post #56
vezycash wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a good way to end the debate on Github profiles is this: Github profiles are advertisement for programmers. Advertising requires resources - time, money, creativity and commitment and not every business is ready to pay to price. Sometimes advertising pays off, some times it doesn't. No police arrests a business owner for not advertising. Same with github profiles. Decide to have one, contribute a little, much…

Designers have portfolios. Would you do them away as "advertisements" as well? They are much more than that, e.g. they show the skills of the designer.

If I read correctly the idea is not to do away with repos but rather not using that as the single signal.

Just like you shouldn't exclude any companies just because they don't advertise.

Re: GitHub and Open-Source Is a Boon for the Underprivileged

#60

Post by underwater »

onion2k wrote: post #10

The point people are making about using GitHub profiles for hiring is that it ignores great developers who don't write code outside of their job (that might be due to other interests, family responsibilities, a second job, whatever). The fact this guy is in a position to write code in his spare time just means he's not in that group, and the fact his open source work on Github specifically landed him a job he wanted…

I don’t code much in my spare time. I have kids and a busy home life, but really it doesn’t take long to build up a portfolio of work that is representative of your skills.

Sharing my work got me, as an Aussie working mediocre jobs, on the right person’s radar to help me land a job at Facebook. This shaved probably 10 years off my career path. That was a great return on investment and a big leveller for someone who didn’t study at a brand name US college and have an obvious path to the door of a major tech company.

I’m now in a position to hire others. I certainly don’t mind if someone doesn’t have open source code shared. It clearly not a priority for many people. But I do appreciate when people do have a good backlog of work to show as it can give a seemingly lacklustre candidate a second opportunity to shine.

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