Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why emergency braking systems sometimes hit parked cars and lane dividers

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 244 posts

Re: Why emergency braking systems sometimes hit parked cars and lane dividers

#121

Post by zwkrt »

dchichkov wrote: post #52
rayiner wrote: post #31

What this shows is that Tesla isn’t even on the path to self-driving technology. It sounds like “Autopilot” has no world model (or an extremely basic one)—it ignores stationary objects because it can’t tell whether it’s approaching something on the side of a road that curves away versus an obstacle in the lane. It can’t tell because it doesn’t know what the car is going to do and what the lane is going to do. That’s…

It might be even worse than that. They likely think that they are on the path, because they are running a massive data-collection campaign on the sensor suite installed on the fleet. But the reality might be different. Running a data collection campaign is easy. Engineering products with machine learning is hard. Most of the teams don't even know what they need to know, to do it right. And so they engage into classic…

Can you elaborate on the phrase "carving wooden headphones"? I haven't heard of that term before.

Re: Why emergency braking systems sometimes hit parked cars and lane dividers

#122

Post by Declanomous »

zwkrt wrote: post #121
dchichkov wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be even worse than that. They likely think that they are on the path, because they are running a massive data-collection campaign on the sensor suite installed on the fleet. But the reality might be different. Running a data collection campaign is easy. Engineering products with machine learning is hard. Most of the teams don't even know what they need to know, to do it right. And so they engage into classic…

Can you elaborate on the phrase "carving wooden headphones"? I haven't heard of that term before.

The island natives in the pacific got a lot of fantastic things from the servicemen who visited their islands during WWII. In an effort to bring them back, they emulated everything they saw the servicemen doing. In effect, they were just going through the motions without purpose.

They built runways and carved wooden headphones like they saw the aviators wearing.

Here's a summary from Wikipedia:

With the end of the war, the military abandoned the airbases and stopped dropping cargo. In response, charismatic individuals developed cults among remote Melanesian populations that promised to bestow on their followers deliveries of food, arms, Jeeps, etc. The cult leaders explained that the cargo would be gifts from their own ancestors, or other sources, as had occurred with the outsider armies. In attempts to get cargo to fall by parachute or land in planes or ships again, islanders imitated the same practices they had seen the soldiers, sailors, and airmen use. Cult behaviors usually involved mimicking the day-to-day activities and dress styles of US soldiers, such as performing parade ground drills with wooden or salvaged rifles.[14] The islanders carved headphones from wood and wore them while sitting in fabricated control towers. They waved the landing signals while standing on the runways. They lit signal fires and torches to light up runways and lighthouses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

Re: Why emergency braking systems sometimes hit parked cars and lane dividers

#123

Post by ausvisaissues »

paulie_a wrote: post #32
rayiner wrote: post #31

What this shows is that Tesla isn’t even on the path to self-driving technology. It sounds like “Autopilot” has no world model (or an extremely basic one)—it ignores stationary objects because it can’t tell whether it’s approaching something on the side of a road that curves away versus an obstacle in the lane. It can’t tell because it doesn’t know what the car is going to do and what the lane is going to do. That’s…

Let's be honest, actual mass deployed self driving tech is probably 20 years away at minimum. I personally might be able to enjoy it just before I retire.

Perhaps that is true, but some incremental steps have the possibility of making driving infinitely better.

Imagine cars that refuse to tailgate, drive at excessive speed, drive with drowsy owners, drive on the right-hand side of the road in non-emergency situations, skip red traffic lights, etc...

Re: Why emergency braking systems sometimes hit parked cars and lane dividers

#125

Post by daferna »

Autopilot would have worked fine if the lane markings were properly painted. No one will blame Caltrans terrible maintenance of 101. As I am writing this, NB 101 near Oregon Expressway has been under construction for over two years with no painted lane markings (and the lanes suddenly become super narrow), leading to merge hell and probably at least 3-4 fender benders a week. The Tesla GUI shows you whether or not it can see & track the lane markings, watching the road is much more important than "keeping your hands on the wheel". The one thing I will lay at the foot of Tesla: they really should have implemented eye tracking.

Re: Why emergency braking systems sometimes hit parked cars and lane dividers

#126

Post by wyldfire »

daferna wrote: post #125

Autopilot would have worked fine if the lane markings were properly painted. No one will blame Caltrans terrible maintenance of 101. As I am writing this, NB 101 near Oregon Expressway has been under construction for over two years with no painted lane markings (and the lanes suddenly become super narrow), leading to merge hell and probably at least 3-4 fender benders a week. The Tesla GUI shows you whether or not it…

You're presuming that in these fatalities that the driver's eyes weren't on the road. What if the autopilot executed a maneuver that attentive drivers couldn't recover from in time?

Re: Why emergency braking systems sometimes hit parked cars and lane dividers

#127

Post by smnrchrds »

daferna wrote: post #125

Autopilot would have worked fine if the lane markings were properly painted. No one will blame Caltrans terrible maintenance of 101. As I am writing this, NB 101 near Oregon Expressway has been under construction for over two years with no painted lane markings (and the lanes suddenly become super narrow), leading to merge hell and probably at least 3-4 fender benders a week. The Tesla GUI shows you whether or not it…

> Autopilot would have worked fine if the lane markings were properly painted

So in other words, Autopilot works reliably only in lab conditions. In the real world, not so much.

Re: Why emergency braking systems sometimes hit parked cars and lane dividers

#128

Post by makewavesnotwar »

paulie_a wrote: post #32
rayiner wrote: post #31

What this shows is that Tesla isn’t even on the path to self-driving technology. It sounds like “Autopilot” has no world model (or an extremely basic one)—it ignores stationary objects because it can’t tell whether it’s approaching something on the side of a road that curves away versus an obstacle in the lane. It can’t tell because it doesn’t know what the car is going to do and what the lane is going to do. That’s…

Let's be honest, actual mass deployed self driving tech is probably 20 years away at minimum. I personally might be able to enjoy it just before I retire.

Unless companies like Tesla stop worrying about being the next "Great American Industry" and start focusing on real world problems and their solutions.

If Tesla could develop a network of self driving buses, that would have far greater reach and impact than trying to solve how to make a private network for charging and all case-considered self-driving system for asshole-mobiles. Not that Tesla cars aren't amazing, but they seem like a giant waste of resources for self-centered people. Not to mention in situations like self-driving, buses have completely predictable paths and because of that, it's much easier to optimize for corner cases to work toward a general solution.

With the exception of the handicapped, people don't really need cars. Bikes/e-bikes work great for any type of commute But guys like Elon Musk are happy to burn the earth to the ground to terraform Mars instead of working on how to terraform places like Arizona or Pakistan because it looks better to them on paper. Or so it would seem.

Re: Why emergency braking systems sometimes hit parked cars and lane dividers

#129

Post by beefield »

atomical wrote: post #86
mattnewport wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That very much depends on where you live. It's generally a lot better in Europe for a variety of reasons: historical, political and geographical. I use public transit quite a bit here in Vancouver but my limited experience of it in SF gives me some appreciation why people might not want to use it there.

People smell better in Europe? When people trot out their arguments against public transportation they always refer to the inefficiencies and completely ignore the human element. No one wants to be crammed in a small space with a bunch of strangers every day.

> No one wants to be crammed in a small space with a bunch of strangers every day.

I take 15 minutes crammed in a small space with a bunch of strangers over one hour of solitude in a small metal box with windows any day.

Nobody has managed to explain me how self driving cars reduces congestion. It is space that is the limiting factor, and I do not understand how autonomous cars reduce the need for that.

Vice versa, rudimentary economic analysis says that if you do not need to concentrate on driving, you can spend more time in the car, thus sitting in the traffic is not that bad and more people are willing to do that -> more congestion.

Re: Why emergency braking systems sometimes hit parked cars and lane dividers

#130

Post by conradev »

atomical wrote: post #86
mattnewport wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That very much depends on where you live. It's generally a lot better in Europe for a variety of reasons: historical, political and geographical. I use public transit quite a bit here in Vancouver but my limited experience of it in SF gives me some appreciation why people might not want to use it there.

People smell better in Europe? When people trot out their arguments against public transportation they always refer to the inefficiencies and completely ignore the human element. No one wants to be crammed in a small space with a bunch of strangers every day.

I love "the human element". I might be in the minority here, but I actually like taking public transit to see a city. Meaning not just the geographical features, but also the people in it.

I would prefer a bus or train to a private car any day, assuming it's reasonably clean and not overcrowded.

Post reply on HN