Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next

#41

Post by groovy2shoes » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 10:49 AM UTC

mcny wrote: post #26

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I agree. While standardization has its benefits, I think homogeneity also has significant drawbacks. Unfortunately, rare is the Linux desktop environment that gets things right for me. KDE comes close, I guess. I haven't seriously tried KDE, though I've heard lots of good things about it recently. I don't know why Ubuntu chose GNOME over Mate, the latter seems a perfectly fine typical desktop environment paradigm.…

I've recently started playing with i3. It is very nice. I don't know how to do a lot of things. I have to Google how to connect to a new WiFi connection every time on my phone. However, I like it a lot. Worst case scenario, I have to reboot and log in with gnome. Personally, I am all for standardization and homogeneity. We need standards and homogeneity. I would gladly steamroll over all the people who oppose "monocu…

I haven't used i3 in a long time, but if it's got support for systray icons, you can run the NetworkManager applet and manage your network settings there as you would in any ol' desktop environment.

I do this with awesome, and it works well. It's a one-liner in rc.lua:

    awful.spawn.with_shell "nm-applet"

Also good for volume control applets :)

Re: Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next

#42

Post by timellis-smith » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 1:09 PM UTC

dopeboy wrote: post #16

nol13 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People (me) were just mad because seemingly in the blink of an eye they went from having a stable mature linux desktop, sometimes even approaching "it just works," to having that ripped away and replaced with a choice between [radical new desktop] or xfce. Unity or GNOME Shell might really be great, but that's a huge change to force on unsuspecting neckbeards. Wish Canonical would have just created MATE themselves.

This is exactly right, it was timing. I have been using Ubuntu since 2005 and it was a rough grind on the "just-works" front in those beginning days. By 2010, desktop Ubuntu was in great shape and laptop Ubuntu was nearly there (moreso on suspend/resume, not so much on battery). People were just starting to breathe and then Unity came and threw any semblance of stability out the window.

Lucid and maverick where possibly the best desktop experiences I've had. Going to Natty (and oneric), with its many bugs was such a huge shock that I pretty much stopped using Ubuntu and switched to Mint

Re: Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next

#43

Post by ddtaylor » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 2:04 PM UTC

Mark changed his mind a lot and Canonical has started and cancelled many projects to the point it's hard to care about their new stuff anymore.

Oh you're supporting netbooks and doing a distro related to it? Cancelled.

Oh you started a cloud service that stores files forever? Cancelled.

Oh you created a competitor to X and Wayland for compositing? Cancelled.

Oh you created an alternative window manager to replace Gnome She'll? Cancelled.

Did they cancel their phone yet?

Didn't they have some kind of $30,000 server they were talking about for a while that wad cancelled?

It's hard to keep up with all their cancelled projects.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next

#44

Post by zizek23 » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

awat wrote: post #2

I have to agree with him on Unity, the reaction to it seemed to outweigh it’s presentation. I gave it a try and liked some aspects but ultimately ended up on Cinnamon. I realize that’s a totally subjective statement but I was surprised by some of the reactions I heard about it.

Unity was the first Linux desktop that was polished and had the just works feel about it.

I remember struggling with Linux GUIs since the earliest days of Redhat and we are talking 15 years ago. Unity is comparable to my retina macbook and Win10 desktop. This is not a small achievement. Your grandmother could use it.

Internet opinion tends to be loud but may not be representative when you mix in the vested interests pushing their own desktops, astroturfers and a certain community who think they should control Linux and everyone needs their approval and blessings.

In Unity's case it was this last group with the most vicious reactions. No one can be so bitter about a desktop unless they are vested in something else. I wish Ubuntu hadn't abandoned it.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next

#45

Post by themodelplumber » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

ddtaylor wrote: post #43

Mark changed his mind a lot and Canonical has started and cancelled many projects to the point it's hard to care about their new stuff anymore. Oh you're supporting netbooks and doing a distro related to it? Cancelled. Oh you started a cloud service that stores files forever? Cancelled. Oh you created a competitor to X and Wayland for compositing? Cancelled. Oh you created an alternative window manager to replace Gno…

Sure, it's a bummer to see potentially cool stuff get canceled. But Ubuntu was all about innovation from the start. I wouldn't mind seeing twice as many canceled projects, because it's a sign that you're willing to put yourself out there and fail often. Innovation has a cost, and if part of that cost is "we can't support netbooks but other distros will, heck you can even use Xubuntu if you want" that's fine with me.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next

#46

Post by thefifthsetpin » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 4:42 PM UTC

themodelplumber wrote: post #45

ddtaylor wrote: post #43

Mark changed his mind a lot and Canonical has started and cancelled many projects to the point it's hard to care about their new stuff anymore. Oh you're supporting netbooks and doing a distro related to it? Cancelled. Oh you started a cloud service that stores files forever? Cancelled. Oh you created a competitor to X and Wayland for compositing? Cancelled. Oh you created an alternative window manager to replace Gno…

Sure, it's a bummer to see potentially cool stuff get canceled. But Ubuntu was all about innovation from the start. I wouldn't mind seeing twice as many canceled projects, because it's a sign that you're willing to put yourself out there and fail often. Innovation has a cost, and if part of that cost is "we can't support netbooks but other distros will, heck you can even use Xubuntu if you want" that's fine with me.

> Ubuntu was all about innovation from the start

I thought it was about making a distro that was approachable and accessible?

Source: vaguely remembered "What does ubuntu mean?" promo videos from many years ago.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next

#47

Post by krylon » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #11

I think the major distros defaulting to GNOME is not going to end well. I tried very hard to use (and like) GNOME Shell for a while, and put it on my wife's computer as well. I always ended up finding completely wrong for the way I want to interact with my computer. And my wife long complained "why don't you switch my machine to the nice interface you use" and finally last week I did switch her off of GNOME and she's…

I may be old-fashioned, but to me, GNOME 2 was the best desktop environment I ever used, no matter what OS. GNOME 3 was basically the main reason I switched from GNU/Linux to a Mac in 2013.

Then I discovered MATE. =D I have switched back to GNU/Linux with a MATE desktop since, and I could not be happier. To my taste, it gives both Windows and macOS a run for their money.

Out of curiosity: what is that "nice interface you use" your wife asked about?

Re: Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next

#48

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

ploggingdev wrote: post #19

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #11

I think the major distros defaulting to GNOME is not going to end well. I tried very hard to use (and like) GNOME Shell for a while, and put it on my wife's computer as well. I always ended up finding completely wrong for the way I want to interact with my computer. And my wife long complained "why don't you switch my machine to the nice interface you use" and finally last week I did switch her off of GNOME and she's…

I'm interested to learn why they chose to switch to Gnome instead of KDE plasma. What was the thinking behind it? Why wasn't the community involved in the decision? Gnome has the backing of Redhat and is the default DE on Fedora, so Canonical backing an alternative would have been desirable. I'm biased, but Plasma or even Mate would have been much better choices. Plasma has been so good lately and seems to take commu…

[deleted]

Re: Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next

#49

Post by _emacsomancer_ » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

krylon wrote: post #47

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #11

I think the major distros defaulting to GNOME is not going to end well. I tried very hard to use (and like) GNOME Shell for a while, and put it on my wife's computer as well. I always ended up finding completely wrong for the way I want to interact with my computer. And my wife long complained "why don't you switch my machine to the nice interface you use" and finally last week I did switch her off of GNOME and she's…

I may be old-fashioned, but to me, GNOME 2 was the best desktop environment I ever used, no matter what OS. GNOME 3 was basically the main reason I switched from GNU/Linux to a Mac in 2013. Then I discovered MATE. =D I have switched back to GNU/Linux with a MATE desktop since, and I could not be happier. To my taste, it gives both Windows and macOS a run for their money. Out of curiosity: what is that "nice interface…

MATE/Mate (I'm unsure of the current preferred typefacing) seems very nice, and I don't fully understand why Canonical chose to go with GNOME Shell rather than Mate, especially as one of their own employees (Martin Wimpress) is own of the driving forces behind Mate. I suppose it's because they figure GNOME has the financial backing of Red Hat. But I think in this case the financial position of GNOME Shell is misleading as to the current state of its technology and usability.

The 'nice interface I use' which I switched my wife to is AwesomeWM. Not that user-friendly to configure, but really pleasant to use.

Re: Mark Shuttleworth on where Canonical and Ubuntu Linux are going next

#50

Post by _emacsomancer_ » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 5:24 PM UTC

jabl wrote: post #28

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #11

I think the major distros defaulting to GNOME is not going to end well. I tried very hard to use (and like) GNOME Shell for a while, and put it on my wife's computer as well. I always ended up finding completely wrong for the way I want to interact with my computer. And my wife long complained "why don't you switch my machine to the nice interface you use" and finally last week I did switch her off of GNOME and she's…

I think the point of the article wasn't to argue which desktop env is the bestest, but rather that as far as canonical is concerned the desktop can go DIAF (except as a gateway drug for their server/iot stuff). They are focusing on cloud / iot. So they dumped their own thing. Since unity was partially based on gnome, they used gnome before, and somebody else (rh) keeps pumping resources into it, it seems like a natur…

> So they dumped their own thing. Since unity was partially based on gnome, they used gnome before, and somebody else (rh) keeps pumping resources into it, it seems like a natural choice.

Of course. But unfortunately I think that what makes sense from a historical and resource-evaluation standpoint ends up falling down in terms of real-world usability.