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Re: undefined

#41

Post by louisswiss »

rutierut wrote: post #23

I am still a very active member of IH, read a lot of the posts and comment often. The thing that bothers me the most is that it is currently shifting from a group of people that are helping out each other to a place for people to share their (success) stories. Don't get me wrong there is currently plenty of both but it's shifting towards a more egocentric vibe. Someone created a popular thread a while ago (3th most p…

I'm pretty active on IH as well. Haven't really seen the phenomenon that you're describing yet, but I agree that 'copy paste' fatigue is a bit of a problem - I'm definitely struggling to find the energy to post the same response to what amounts to the same question for the fifth time.

I'd like to see the community split up into different threads/sections (like subreddits). We could have a section for [show IH] posts, a section for self-promoting advice articles, and a section to ask for advice.

What I'd really like to see is a Stack Overflow-style suggestion which pops up before you submit a question, prompting you to check out a few previous threads which might answer your question instead of submitting a new one.

Re: undefined

#42

Post by csallen »

rutierut wrote: post #23

I am still a very active member of IH, read a lot of the posts and comment often. The thing that bothers me the most is that it is currently shifting from a group of people that are helping out each other to a place for people to share their (success) stories. Don't get me wrong there is currently plenty of both but it's shifting towards a more egocentric vibe. Someone created a popular thread a while ago (3th most p…

I actually track this (roughly), and the percentage of people asking for help hasn't decreased over time. It increased in January of this year and has stayed relatively steady since.

That said, one thing I may investigate is either removing link-only posts altogether, or limiting them to users who pass some minimum standard. Link-only posts are generally easier to abuse and less useful on IH than they are on a site like HN, where people come to discuss news.

Re: undefined

#43

Post by niko001 »

louisswiss wrote: post #39
niko001 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I can fully understand Courtland's motivation to grow a community (to keep people coming back more frequently / to create engagement) and the best way to do this is putting the forum front and center, but at the moment, the community is much too immature to be valuable. Lots of people asking for feedback (often with zero replies), self-promotional articles disguised as advice from first-time side-project crea…

> I can fully understand Courtland's motivation to grow a community (to keep people coming back more frequently / to create engagement) I don't think that's why Courtland is growing a community. I think he is growing the community because he believe's it is the best way he can help indie founders be more successful right now. Also, please stop spreading untruths. It takes one click to get from the homepage to a list…

> Also, please stop spreading untruths. It takes one click to get from the homepage to a list of all interviews ranked in descending chronological order. With some pretty awesome filters as well.

Not true. On mobile, it takes exactly three clicks, as I stated. On desktop, it takes two clicks. What you're probably referring to, the "browse hundreds" link on the homepage (desktop only), is a list of products, which are different from interviews. Please stop spreading untruths (and being so theatrical in the process).

I never discouraged anyone from visiting IH, I just stated the for me personally, the old focus was more valuable.

> the average quality of discussions and answers is higher than on HN

That's just not true. Probably 30% of threads receive 0-1 replies, there's a lot of blogspam, and the community is very homogenous. There's nothing wrong with trying to grow a community, and I love what Courtland is doing in general, I just liked the "old" IH better.

Re: undefined

#44

Post by csallen »

louisswiss wrote: post #41
rutierut wrote: post #23

I am still a very active member of IH, read a lot of the posts and comment often. The thing that bothers me the most is that it is currently shifting from a group of people that are helping out each other to a place for people to share their (success) stories. Don't get me wrong there is currently plenty of both but it's shifting towards a more egocentric vibe. Someone created a popular thread a while ago (3th most p…

I'm pretty active on IH as well. Haven't really seen the phenomenon that you're describing yet, but I agree that 'copy paste' fatigue is a bit of a problem - I'm definitely struggling to find the energy to post the same response to what amounts to the same question for the fifth time. I'd like to see the community split up into different threads/sections (like subreddits). We could have a section for [show IH] posts,…

"Subreddits" are coming eventually!

The other phenomenon, of people asking the same question over and over, is an interesting one. Unlike StackOverflow, sometimes the same question (e.g. "How should I improve my landing page?") has a different answer depending on what your business is. That said, it would still be nice to do the SO-suggestion thing, and maybe surface some articles as well as some previous threads on the topic.

Re: undefined

#45

Post by louisswiss »

niko001 wrote: post #43
louisswiss wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can fully understand Courtland's motivation to grow a community (to keep people coming back more frequently / to create engagement) I don't think that's why Courtland is growing a community. I think he is growing the community because he believe's it is the best way he can help indie founders be more successful right now. Also, please stop spreading untruths. It takes one click to get from the homepage to a list…

> Also, please stop spreading untruths. It takes one click to get from the homepage to a list of all interviews ranked in descending chronological order. With some pretty awesome filters as well. Not true. On mobile, it takes exactly three clicks, as I stated. On desktop, it takes two clicks. What you're probably referring to, the "browse hundreds" link on the homepage (desktop only), is a list of products , which ar…

> Not true. On mobile, it takes exactly three clicks, as I stated. On desktop, it takes two clicks.

Ok, just in case you're genuinely mistaken and not trolling, I'll bite. It takes one click on both mobile (iOS at least) and desktop to get to the newest interviews (https://www.indiehackers.com/interviews/page/1). The link is in the footer (titled "interviews").

> That's just not true. Probably 30% of threads receive 0-1 replies, there's a lot of blogspam, and the community is very homogenous.

Again, I can almost understand why you'd think that if you didn't spend much time on HN or IH.

IH is definitely smaller and more homogenous than HN (in terms of interests but probably not backgrounds). So if you're the kind of person who spends their time on the 'front page' of HN and IH, it's conceivable you'd get the wrong impression.

But you'd be missing out on the bigger picture - check out the difference between the 'new posts' tabs on HN and IH... Maybe 10% of new HN posts are ever commented on or receive more than 2-3 upvotes. For Indie Hackers it's easily 50 or 60%.

> I just liked the "old" IH better.

That's fair.

Re: undefined

#46

Post by agree83 »

I agree. It is almost exactly the same as r/startups and it's just ebook authors and newsletter owners marketing to themselves. The value of the forums is incredibly low, and the signal to noise ratio even lower. The interviews and podcast do still have value though.. But the forum, is a cesspool imo.

Re: undefined

#47

Post by [deleted] »

louisswiss wrote: post #45
niko001 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, please stop spreading untruths. It takes one click to get from the homepage to a list of all interviews ranked in descending chronological order. With some pretty awesome filters as well. Not true. On mobile, it takes exactly three clicks, as I stated. On desktop, it takes two clicks. What you're probably referring to, the "browse hundreds" link on the homepage (desktop only), is a list of products , which ar…

> Not true. On mobile, it takes exactly three clicks, as I stated. On desktop, it takes two clicks. Ok, just in case you're genuinely mistaken and not trolling, I'll bite. It takes one click on both mobile (iOS at least) and desktop to get to the newest interviews ( https://www.indiehackers.com/interviews/page/1 ). The link is in the footer (titled "interviews"). > That's just not true. Probably 30% of threads receiv…

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#48

Post by louisswiss »

csallen wrote: post #44
louisswiss wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty active on IH as well. Haven't really seen the phenomenon that you're describing yet, but I agree that 'copy paste' fatigue is a bit of a problem - I'm definitely struggling to find the energy to post the same response to what amounts to the same question for the fifth time. I'd like to see the community split up into different threads/sections (like subreddits). We could have a section for [show IH] posts,…

"Subreddits" are coming eventually! The other phenomenon, of people asking the same question over and over, is an interesting one. Unlike StackOverflow, sometimes the same question (e.g. "How should I improve my landing page?") has a different answer depending on what your business is. That said, it would still be nice to do the SO-suggestion thing, and maybe surface some articles as well as some previous threads on…

Awesome!

> Unlike StackOverflow, sometimes the same question (e.g. "How should I improve my landing page?") has a different answer depending on what your business is.

Definitely. One of my pet peeves is people asking these questions without providing context. Although luckily the IH community is slightly more measured/forgiving in response than on SO ;)

Re: undefined

#49

Post by csallen »

niko001 wrote: post #32
poweredprocess wrote: post #4

I feel the same. IH was a site I visited on a daily basis but now I rarely remember of checking it even once a week. I thought being acquired by stripe would be a great thing for Indie Hackers but apparently it wasn't the case.

I've had exactly the same experience, but I'm not sure whether the acquisition by Stripe played a role in this. There might be an advantage in having a lively community of people asking for advice if some of them are asking "which payment processor should I use for my project", but I haven't seen that happen frequently. For me, reading about successful startups using Stripe was much more powerful than an off-hand rec…

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't written a blog post about it, but the TL;DR is that engagement and views are significantly higher than a year ago.

We've experimented with a variety of different homepages, including the old list of interviews, and also a mixed homepage that included the forum + interviews + podcast. Ultimately, there isn't one answer that works for everyone. However, I can say with confidence that more people get bored of reading interview after interview and stop coming back than is the case with the community forum. If I were to simply revert to the old IH, it wouldn't be long before there was another thread like this one, but with a different subset of people asking me to move the community back to the fore.

I think your question about the value of metrics is an important one. Why attempt to grow at all? My thinking on this is simple: as long as IH remains an inspirational and educational resource that's a net positive for those it reaches, then the world is better off if it reaches more people.

The risk of course is that growth involves change, and that change might be for the worse if we're not careful. This is something I think about constantly, and one of the reasons feedback threads like this one are helpful.

Re: undefined

#50

Post by csallen »

ih_fan wrote: post #15
csallen wrote: post #2

Feel free to email me with suggestions! courtland@indiehackers.com EDIT: I should say that the navigation is a work in progress, and the interviews/podcast/etc will eventually be easier to get to.

Hi Courtland, as my username suggests, I am a big fan of IH but I've almost completely stopped visiting. All feedback/suggestions are in good faith. - Blog : this was the single most valuable part of IH in the early days. Your struggles to grow, make money were so relatable. While the numbers might not have given you an idea of how wonderful the blog was, I'm sure people who've read it feel the same. Please consider…

You're hitting me with the tough questions, appreciate that they're all in good faith :)

- I enjoyed blogging about IH, but it was also quite time-consuming, and not that many people found it interesting relative to the other stories we feature on the site. So it was just a tradeoff on what's the most effective way to spend my time. That said, I do have a "product page" for Indie Hackers where I will occasionally share what's going on: https://www.indiehackers.com/product/indie-hackers. You can find similar pages for other companies or create one of your own here: https://www.indiehackers.com/products

- Pushing for signups was an experiment that I'm happy to have reverted. Appreciate the feedback I got about it from multiple sources.

- Channing and I spend lots of time on the forum. We do a lot of moderation, emailing people individually, encouraging and suggesting posts, and making comments ourselves. Much of this work is invisible. But I do think that as the forum continues to grow (which it hasn't stopped doing), we'll become a bit harder to find, like two needles in an ever-expanding haystack.

- I'd like to move waaaay faster. It's tough. I do feel slow, especially during the last couple of months. (Lesson learned: say no to giving talks, say no to most meetings, respond to fewer emails.) There's also just a ton of work involved in running all the different parts of IH. There's a lot to prioritize, including numerous issues at any given time where a solid case could be made that "this is the most important thing." We're hiring a couple of engineers, so in the long run this should improve.

- Aware of speed issues. Will improve over time. Again, one of the many things to juggle prioritizing. MLK once said, "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice." I'd like to think the arc of Indie Hackers' development is long, but it bends toward a better, faster site.

Thanks for the feedback!

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