Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All • Hacker News Board

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#211

Post by exolymph » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 8:37 AM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #14

lalos wrote: post #5

It did reshape it. Turns out you can offload your costs to your 'employees' that hardly will organize and project costs and earnings to the future (like a competent business). I've talked with bunch of car sharing drivers who were bamboozled with car loans, get hit by traffic infractions, costs of maintenance and the list goes on and on. I feel that the gig economy preys on people who have not developed that risk man…

Interesting that this thread and the "chatbots aren't so great after all" thread hit the front page on the same day. Anyone who actually thought people gave a shit about chatbots was either deluded, a chatbot API salesman, or a manager/owner trying to cut costs by downsizing their call/chat support center. Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill…

It's more complex than that: https://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/gig-economy-worker-conditions...

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#212

Post by alexgmcm » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 8:42 AM UTC

afarrell wrote: post #82

mrtksn wrote: post #42

When I first arrived in London my English was not good enough to speak on the phone, I had no idea what the London job market for developers looked like, I had no idea where should I live and where should I settle. So for the first 3-4 months, I did some wine waiting as a gig(agency work, no fixed place or hours. Like with Uber, you provide your own gear - like uniforms, bottle openers etc.) at the finest, the most i…

> really hard to do because of catch 22 To expand on what mrtksn means: in the UK, it is difficult to get a bank account without proof of address. It is also difficult to rent a flat without a UK bank account. There are a few ways around this: - Have a friend put you on their water bill and use this as proof of address. I suspect this is illegal. - Join a flatshare without getting on the lease, pay for your portion o…

Wow, I'm from the UK but emigrated to Spain after Uni.

I never knew it was so hard for new arrivals in the UK - here in Spain it was pretty easy, the hardest thing was getting the appointment for the ID card.

I lived in Germany for a bit too and there it was also easy.

I really think we need some ID system like the NIE or Anmeldung in the UK as I can't drive and always had to use my passport as ID which is a massive pain - it'd make stuff like this easier too.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#213

Post by AstralStorm » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 8:48 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #204

dannypgh wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or to allow living without work. I join in the argument that labor is coerced into participating in the free market in the US. The agent/subject that you're missing is the government and their enforcement of laws pertaining to property. I would argue that labor is only as free as the social net for unemployed is strong. The coercion comes from the fact that your landlord can have the sheriff evict you (or your bank…

> I would argue that labor is only as free as the social net for unemployed is strong. You're arguing that labor is only free so long as it can hold a gun to someone else's head (the evil 10%) and force them to support said labor via welfare by taking the fruits of the labor that the 10% produce. As though one has an inherent right to someone else's very life and property (if you did, you wouldn't need a gun to steal…

Welcome to animal kingdom.

The whole prerequisite of welfare is to take excess resources to redistribute.

Now who decides what is excess? Definitely not the person who has it and is greedy. So or societies have decided that majority or representative of the majority decided this. Reasonably equitable system, but not exactly colouring or incorruptible.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#214

Post by vmateixeira » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:13 AM UTC

conanbatt wrote: post #182

losteric wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are these people born with "only allowed to work as a car driver" stamped on their forehead? Did you see what I said about poverty traps? Once someone is stuck, it's very challenging to break out without outside help. > The difficulties of moving between industries are real, I'll acknowledge them and say maybe there is a role for the government to facilitate this aspect. However, as a practical point, I don't think…

>Did you see what I said about poverty traps? Once someone is stuck, it's very challenging to break out without outside help. We need to agree on where the poverty traps come from first to then reason if government is the solution.

I would say greediness.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#215

Post by hoschicz » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:16 AM UTC

lkrubner wrote: post #7

oli5679 wrote: post #2

Reminds me of the economist Robert Solow's quip: "You can see the computer age everywhere but in the productivity statistics."

This is a good comment. It is interesting to consider how much rhetoric there is about robots and AI and Machine Learning and how these technologies can revolutionize work and lead to big productivity gains. And yet, in reality, the economy shows no sign of this. Productivity growth was very strong in the mid-20th century, but since 1973 productivity growth has been stagnant.

Changes in GDP are caused either by debt or by productivity increases. Productivity growth since 1973 has _not_ been stagnant.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#216

Post by adrfvv » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:20 AM UTC

alexgmcm wrote: post #212

afarrell wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> really hard to do because of catch 22 To expand on what mrtksn means: in the UK, it is difficult to get a bank account without proof of address. It is also difficult to rent a flat without a UK bank account. There are a few ways around this: - Have a friend put you on their water bill and use this as proof of address. I suspect this is illegal. - Join a flatshare without getting on the lease, pay for your portion o…

Wow, I'm from the UK but emigrated to Spain after Uni. I never knew it was so hard for new arrivals in the UK - here in Spain it was pretty easy, the hardest thing was getting the appointment for the ID card. I lived in Germany for a bit too and there it was also easy. I really think we need some ID system like the NIE or Anmeldung in the UK as I can't drive and always had to use my passport as ID which is a massive…

Why is using a passport a massive pain? Why do you need yet another ID (yet another department with all your (eventually incorrect) details?).

We already debated this in Parliament and it was pretty much (thank god) killed.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#217

Post by mrtksn » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:41 AM UTC

vmateixeira wrote: post #210

ed_balls wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my mate opened a back account in 2010 because he ordered Burton catalogue and he got a letter with the address.

Back in 2015 I ordered a Vodafone Pre-paid SIM to a friends address and that was how I got "my proof of address".

Yeah, I tried that but it was not accepted. One branch told me that some countries are considered higher risk than others so they need to be stricter and want a utility bill or a statement from another bank.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#218

Post by user5994461 » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:42 AM UTC

dpwm wrote: post #129

stallmanite wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone comment on why this is the case? It seems ridiculous on it's face.

It's a UK thing -- everything has to not work in the most ridiculous way possible. This also applies to anti-money-laundering stuff: it's better to affect loads of people really badly who are most certainly not money laundering as long as it does not affect the people who are money laundering at scale. That said, there are people who don't really understand that people on social media paying you for access to your ba…

It's not a UK thing. Most banks have the same regulations. The UK is one of the easy country to move to.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#219

Post by gaius » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:44 AM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #168

mrtksn wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AML regulations and scams. Apparently in the past people with questionable sources of income used to open fake accounts to move money and the banks were happy to do it until the regulators slammed them with fines. Also, when you have a bank account you can get things like a phone contract with a direct debit payment. Apparently, some people made it a habit to leave the UK without paying their bills after they are don…

It is simply incredible how governments do never decided that banking is a public service and should be regulated as such (it's been what? 300 years? Maybe that's still too little) A passport is enough to prove your identity isn't fake. But since it's not enough to give you a credit line, banks simply refuse the service. There are way too many people with no access to banks.

It is simply incredible how governments do never decided that banking is a public service

They did https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girobank https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Money

A passport is enough to prove your identity isn't fake

Theoretically, perhaps, but in practice anyone who needs to validate identity will ask for multiple forms of ID.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#220

Post by jdietrich » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:47 AM UTC

afarrell wrote: post #82

mrtksn wrote: post #42

When I first arrived in London my English was not good enough to speak on the phone, I had no idea what the London job market for developers looked like, I had no idea where should I live and where should I settle. So for the first 3-4 months, I did some wine waiting as a gig(agency work, no fixed place or hours. Like with Uber, you provide your own gear - like uniforms, bottle openers etc.) at the finest, the most i…

> really hard to do because of catch 22 To expand on what mrtksn means: in the UK, it is difficult to get a bank account without proof of address. It is also difficult to rent a flat without a UK bank account. There are a few ways around this: - Have a friend put you on their water bill and use this as proof of address. I suspect this is illegal. - Join a flatshare without getting on the lease, pay for your portion o…

The bank side of the equation has become a lot easier. New services like Monese and Revolut make it trivial to get a basic bank account without proof of address. You can open an account in minutes and start receiving payments from an employer or send payments to a landlord.

https://monese.com/

https://www.revolut.com/

The rental side has become more tricky. The Immigration Act 2015 made it a criminal offence to rent a property to someone who does not have the legal right to live in the UK, with a maximum penalty of 5 years imprisonment and an unlimited fine. Unless you have an EEA passport, it can be very difficult to find somewhere to live. Some landlords are even more cautious/discriminatory and won't rent to anyone who seems foreign. It's another embarrassing symptom of Theresa May's illiberal and inhumane "hostile environment".

https://www.gov.uk/penalties-illegal-renting