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Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

factorio.com

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Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#71

Post by yacn »

c3534l wrote: post #63
jaysonelliot wrote: post #19

This has been a debate for as long as I've been a UX designer (mid '90s), and probably much longer. Ultimately, the answer about this UX style is very much the same as a question about writing style—there's no objectively right answer, but you have to be consistent. For example, you can pick up any number of style books from Strunk & White to the Chicago Manual of Style and get different "right" answers about writing…

Even in film the convention is that if you're character is going back, standing in the way of another character moving the plot forward, or just feeling weak or uncertain, they should face the left. When was the last platformer you saw where you moved left to progress? The right hand side conventionally portrays certainty, strength, and progress in all manner of western arts.

Axiom Verge (a metroid-vania) starts you off by going to the left first, just like Metroid did.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#72

Post by zeitg3ist »

foobar1962 wrote: post #35

> But little I knew, that this is actually specific to windows, and on Linux or macOS, the order is reversed... Did anybody else pick this up? The person has only ever seen Windows. That’s extremely limiting. A later comment talks about how Microsoft designed things... one of the big differences between Mac and (DOS and early Windows) was that Mac developers tended to use the Apple tool kit and design guidelines, but…

I have always used a Mac, and just occasionally Windows: I have never noticed this detail until I read this article. Sure, something always seemed “off” with dialogs in Windows, but I couldn’t pinpoint it. So I don’t think the author never used a Mac, it’s more likely that they never connected the dots either.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#74

Post by deathanatos »

scrollaway wrote: post #6

HN folks will appreciate the entire Factorio blog. They are super open about the design of their game and it's full of micro-postmortems. https://www.factorio.com/blog/ Also, if you're reading this, you are in a demographic that is likely to absolutely love Factorio. Go buy it, it's 20 eur/usd, you won't regret it. Some call it "Programming: The Game".

It is actually 30 USD now, but I still think it is well worth it. (I've definitely derived 30 USD of entertainment from it!) I've bought it for myself, and gifted it to three other people. Very addicting game for programmers.

The blog is quite good too, and the interactions I've seen with the developers have been excellent. There's a reddit community too: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio

There's an active modding community as well, and several of the mods are fairly extensive; I'd recommend beating the vanilla game first, though.

For anyone on the fence about buying the game, there is a free demo[1].

[1]: https://www.factorio.com/download-demo

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#75

Post by doh »

Years ago I read an article [0] that was championing Cancel-Ok based on the fact that most of the world reads from left to right and thus the eyes move from left to right. If you use Ok-Cancel, user's eyes have to essentially go back to the positive action, which is the one that they do more often.

[0] http://uxmovement.com/buttons/why-ok-buttons-in-dialog-boxes...

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#76

Post by throwawayjava »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #19

This has been a debate for as long as I've been a UX designer (mid '90s), and probably much longer. Ultimately, the answer about this UX style is very much the same as a question about writing style—there's no objectively right answer, but you have to be consistent. For example, you can pick up any number of style books from Strunk & White to the Chicago Manual of Style and get different "right" answers about writing…

> So the answer from this veteran UX designer would be: Use whichever placement your users are going to be the most familiar with, but whichever you choose, be 100% consistent with the choice you make.

What are your thoughts on how smartphones might impact this left vs. right debate? The button on the right is accessible without using just one hand (tapping with thumb while holding in palm), but I need two hands to tap the button on the left.

But I'm left-handed. Do right-handed people hold their smartphone in their left hand? It just occurred to me that my minority handedness might be why I've always found large smartphones hard to use.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#77

Post by latexr »

c3534l wrote: post #63
jaysonelliot wrote: post #19

This has been a debate for as long as I've been a UX designer (mid '90s), and probably much longer. Ultimately, the answer about this UX style is very much the same as a question about writing style—there's no objectively right answer, but you have to be consistent. For example, you can pick up any number of style books from Strunk & White to the Chicago Manual of Style and get different "right" answers about writing…

Even in film the convention is that if you're character is going back, standing in the way of another character moving the plot forward, or just feeling weak or uncertain, they should face the left. When was the last platformer you saw where you moved left to progress? The right hand side conventionally portrays certainty, strength, and progress in all manner of western arts.

> Even in film the convention is that if you're character is going back, standing in the way of another character moving the plot forward, or just feeling weak or uncertain, they should face the left.

Related to your comment, even if unrelated to the theme as a whole: “Snowpiercer - Left or Right”[1]. A video essay by Tony Zhou and Taylor Ramos. Unfortunately they’ve stopped that series[2]; it was easily one of my favourite things on the internet. Off the top of my head I’ll recommend “Jackie Chan - How to Do Action Comedy”[3], “Edgar Wright - How to Do Visual Comedy”[4], and “Memories of Murder (2003) - Ensemble Staging”[5].

[1]: https://vimeo.com/110329961

[2]: https://vimeo.com/tonyzhou

[3]: https://vimeo.com/113439313

[4]: https://vimeo.com/96558506

[5]: https://vimeo.com/149936243

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#78

Post by jacobolus »

userbinator wrote: post #53
JonathonW wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ok" for a change (that's described in the body of the dialog's text) is... okay, I suppose. But it's better to mirror the action verb for your confirmation button, because users don't necessarily read the text you present them with. So, instead of this: Delete xyz.jpg? -------------------------- The file 'xyz.jpg' will be permanently deleted. -------------------------- [ OK ] [ Cancel ] You have: Delete xyz.jpg? ---…

Actually "mirror the action verb" surprises/confuses me even more than "OK" "Cancel", since the latter are standard and almost expected, whereas anything other than a positive/negative response feels unexpected. It's like the real-life equivalent of asking someone a yes/no question --- you're expecting a yes/no answer. In fact, I'd say this is even clearer, putting the question at the end and immediately following it…

Please force the reader to directly click an action verb. It is much easier to skip over text (even text that comes immediately before) misinterpret the dialog, and click the wrong button when using generic button labels "yes" and "no".

And more generally, before disregarding industry best practices and findings from research literature and implementing something based on ad-hoc personal hunches, make sure you run some experiments on real people.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#80

Post by Stratoscope »

doh wrote: post #75

Years ago I read an article [0] that was championing Cancel-Ok based on the fact that most of the world reads from left to right and thus the eyes move from left to right. If you use Ok-Cancel, user's eyes have to essentially go back to the positive action, which is the one that they do more often. [0] http://uxmovement.com/buttons/why-ok-buttons-in-dialog-boxes...

I wonder if they are really sure about that.

What do you think, no or yes?

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