Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok • Hacker News Board

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#51

Post by 0xfeba » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 12:04 AM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #40

StavrosK wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, precisely. The worst UI I've ever seen was: "Cancel this action?" "Yes" "Cancel" Seriously?!

If you get lucky, it has a window close button on the right top as a safe way out. If you're unlucky... better have that power cable in reach.

Reminds me of this gem from Microsoft:

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/05/24/171215/windows-10-u...

> In a move guaranteed to annoy many people, Microsoft has "jumped the shark" on encouraging users to upgrade to Windows 10. Microsoft has faced criticism for changing the pop-up box encouraging Windows users to upgrade to Windows 10. Clicking the red cross on the right hand corner of the pop-up box now activates the upgrade instead of closing the box.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#52

Post by jessaustin » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 12:04 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #17

We have a review software that has buttons "Wait"-"Approve" and then "Sign"-"decline". So on one screen the positive button is on the right but on the other it's on the left. I have declined tons of reviews just by clicking on the right button reflexively.

Is this intentional? Do they want you to be really sure?

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#53

Post by userbinator » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 12:04 AM UTC

JonathonW wrote: post #27

tridentlead wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, Ok can be a verb. You can “Ok” a change.

"Ok" for a change (that's described in the body of the dialog's text) is... okay, I suppose. But it's better to mirror the action verb for your confirmation button, because users don't necessarily read the text you present them with. So, instead of this: Delete xyz.jpg? -------------------------- The file 'xyz.jpg' will be permanently deleted. -------------------------- [ OK ] [ Cancel ] You have: Delete xyz.jpg? ---…

Actually "mirror the action verb" surprises/confuses me even more than "OK" "Cancel", since the latter are standard and almost expected, whereas anything other than a positive/negative response feels unexpected. It's like the real-life equivalent of asking someone a yes/no question --- you're expecting a yes/no answer. In fact, I'd say this is even clearer, putting the question at the end and immediately following it with the two choices:

    The file 'xyz.jpg' will be
    permanently deleted.
    --------------------------
    Delete xyz.jpg?
    --------------------------
                [ Yes ] [ No ]

...and this also coincidentally gives a reason for the order of OK/Cancel --- affirmation on the left, denial on the right.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#54

Post by DonHopkins » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 12:06 AM UTC

personjerry wrote: post #21

tridentlead wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, Ok can be a verb. You can “Ok” a change.

In that context "Ok" is merely a euphemism for "Accept", which would probably be a better label

At least it's not "Submit", which is just oppressive and demeaning. "Approve" would be more active and positive.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#55

Post by dylan-m » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 12:08 AM UTC

michaelcampbell wrote: post #41

I always preferred, "Do " or "Don't do ". Be explicit in what the buttons mean.

Yep. That's one of the reasons I have always really appreciated GNOME: they're steadfast about buttons that do what they say, and it makes everything so much nicer to deal with for me. Part of this is GTK does a good job avoiding situations where stock OK / Cancel buttons are an easy way out. I think a reason for the vast number of them in other places is developers are lazy gits and lots of UI frameworks make it effortless (like, a single function that blocks your thread effortless) to create really lame question dialogs with ready-made generic labels.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#56

Post by userbinator » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 12:10 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #32

JonathonW wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ok" for a change (that's described in the body of the dialog's text) is... okay, I suppose. But it's better to mirror the action verb for your confirmation button, because users don't necessarily read the text you present them with. So, instead of this: Delete xyz.jpg? -------------------------- The file 'xyz.jpg' will be permanently deleted. -------------------------- [ OK ] [ Cancel ] You have: Delete xyz.jpg? ---…

Yes, precisely. The worst UI I've ever seen was: "Cancel this action?" "Yes" "Cancel" Seriously?!

That also shows why the "repeat the verb again" can be more confusing. At least it wasn't "Cancel this action?" "Cancel" "Cancel"

On the other hand, I think Yes or No are clearly an answer to "Cancel this action?"

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#57

Post by circlingthesun » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 12:12 AM UTC

If you assume that people tend to consider all options before making a choice, putting the primary action on the right makes sense. If you put the primary action on the left, a user will see it first, but then read on to look at the other options. Once all options have been considered, the user has to go back to click the first option. If the primary action is last, the user can immediately click it once all options have been seen.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#58

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 12:13 AM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #6

HN folks will appreciate the entire Factorio blog. They are super open about the design of their game and it's full of micro-postmortems. https://www.factorio.com/blog/ Also, if you're reading this, you are in a demographic that is likely to absolutely love Factorio. Go buy it, it's 20 eur/usd, you won't regret it. Some call it "Programming: The Game".

[deleted]

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#59

Post by mariodiana » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 12:16 AM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #32

JonathonW wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ok" for a change (that's described in the body of the dialog's text) is... okay, I suppose. But it's better to mirror the action verb for your confirmation button, because users don't necessarily read the text you present them with. So, instead of this: Delete xyz.jpg? -------------------------- The file 'xyz.jpg' will be permanently deleted. -------------------------- [ OK ] [ Cancel ] You have: Delete xyz.jpg? ---…

Yes, precisely. The worst UI I've ever seen was: "Cancel this action?" "Yes" "Cancel" Seriously?!

The problem is in the verbiage of the question. A person writing a dialog should consider "Cancel" something like a reserved word in a programming language.

Re: Ok-Cancel versus Cancel-Ok

#60

Post by psychometry » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 12:17 AM UTC

klodolph wrote: post #23

psychometry wrote: post #4

Technically, they're both wrong. Button labels should be verbs. The Cancel - Open example from OS X is the right way to do a dialog box.

Maybe you forgot to read the article? All of the (non-obsolete) screenshots of Factorio have verbs, except for "Back", which is pretty clear to me.

No, I read the article. That's how I was able to directly quote an example of a dialog where not all of the buttons are verbs.