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Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

nytimes.com

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Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#131

Post by mrtksn »

stallmanite wrote: post #123
afarrell wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> really hard to do because of catch 22 To expand on what mrtksn means: in the UK, it is difficult to get a bank account without proof of address. It is also difficult to rent a flat without a UK bank account. There are a few ways around this: - Have a friend put you on their water bill and use this as proof of address. I suspect this is illegal. - Join a flatshare without getting on the lease, pay for your portion o…

Can anyone comment on why this is the case? It seems ridiculous on it's face.

AML regulations and scams.

Apparently in the past people with questionable sources of income used to open fake accounts to move money and the banks were happy to do it until the regulators slammed them with fines.

Also, when you have a bank account you can get things like a phone contract with a direct debit payment. Apparently, some people made it a habit to leave the UK without paying their bills after they are done with their seasonal work.

I'm sure some people run much more elaborate scams.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#132

Post by tomjakubowski »

themagician wrote: post #122
gorpomon wrote: post #70

It's easy to get cynical about the gig economy. But I try and remember that the original spirit of it has been largely successful. The promise of the app economy was that you could take an idea like "I wish I could drive people around for extra money" and make it real, and now it's only real, but for people like my driving-averse mom it's revolutionary. But distortions to the dream have come from all sides. Customers…

That's completely revisionist history. No one was going around thinking, "I wish I could drive people around for extra money." No one. You literally just made that up. If you wanted to drive people around for money you became a taxi driver or got a passenger carrier permit and became a private limo driver. Back in 2008 no one was thinking about how great it would be to drive random strangers around for minimum wage w…

> Uber started as a way to fill the downtime that professional drivers had between clients and jobs. They said, "Hey, there is a workforce with 50% of it's hours idle. I bet we can turn the into cash."

Yeah, black cars with chauffeur licenses only. I remember thinking "a cab to the airport would be cheaper, but I'll pay a bit more to pamper myself -- I've never been in a black car!" just before I ordered my first ever Uber in 2012.

UberX, with "normal people" picking you up in their personal cars, wasn't until April 2013.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#133

Post by danielndukwu »

perfmode wrote: post #128
everyone wrote: post #126

For most people (not highly sought after programmers), its an erosion of what paltry remnant of their workers rights remains. Last time wealth inequality peaked, the robber barons had strike breakers and whatnot. This time (with wealth inequality continuing to soar to historically unprecedented heights) they have the 'gig economy'.

but it's a free market! workers are free to not participate in the gig economy. /s

MMM.... free to starve as well..

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#134

Post by s73v3r_ »

smallgovt wrote: post #103
nerdponx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that this thread and the "chatbots aren't so great after all" thread hit the front page on the same day. Anyone who actually thought people gave a shit about chatbots was either deluded, a chatbot API salesman, or a manager/owner trying to cut costs by downsizing their call/chat support center. Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill…

>> Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill. That's quite a generalization you're making. Just because business owners are benefiting by pushing wages as low as the market will bear and reaping profits/growth, doesn't mean consumers/drivers aren't benefiting from the arrangement as well. Service providers are granted an additional at-will income…

"Many will argue that the service providers are being tricked into the arrangement through hidden costs. However, a large sector of drivers actually rent their cars, which pretty much removes all hidden costs and proves to me that these gigs are a viable alternative to employment."

I'm going to highly disagree with you, there. I had a friend who tried renting the car from one of those companies. Nothing could be further from the truth than what you posted. It was basically the old "company store".

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#135

Post by nerdponx »

conanbatt wrote: post #80
nerdponx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that this thread and the "chatbots aren't so great after all" thread hit the front page on the same day. Anyone who actually thought people gave a shit about chatbots was either deluded, a chatbot API salesman, or a manager/owner trying to cut costs by downsizing their call/chat support center. Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill…

> Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners Consumers were losers?

This is a good point. I was probably a little hyperbolic in my post. The existence of Uber has done a tremendous amount good in breaking up entrenced taxi industries, bringing service to some seriously under-served areas.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#136

Post by orangecat »

themagician wrote: post #122
gorpomon wrote: post #70

It's easy to get cynical about the gig economy. But I try and remember that the original spirit of it has been largely successful. The promise of the app economy was that you could take an idea like "I wish I could drive people around for extra money" and make it real, and now it's only real, but for people like my driving-averse mom it's revolutionary. But distortions to the dream have come from all sides. Customers…

That's completely revisionist history. No one was going around thinking, "I wish I could drive people around for extra money." No one. You literally just made that up. If you wanted to drive people around for money you became a taxi driver or got a passenger carrier permit and became a private limo driver. Back in 2008 no one was thinking about how great it would be to drive random strangers around for minimum wage w…

No one was going around thinking, "I wish I could drive people around for extra money."

I'm pretty sure more than zero people have wanted part-time work with more flexible schedules than were commonly available. (See patio11: https://twitter.com/patio11/status/993186705850052610)

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#137

Post by nerdponx »

reaperducer wrote: post #119
nerdponx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that this thread and the "chatbots aren't so great after all" thread hit the front page on the same day. Anyone who actually thought people gave a shit about chatbots was either deluded, a chatbot API salesman, or a manager/owner trying to cut costs by downsizing their call/chat support center. Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill…

>Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill. Sometimes you just need a quick gig to make ends meet between jobs. Something you can pick up in a day or two and leave just as quickly. Full-time, long-term? No, it's not a great idea. But it's a good safety net when things get tough.

How about an actual social safety net though?

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#138

Post by themagician »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #132
themagician wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's completely revisionist history. No one was going around thinking, "I wish I could drive people around for extra money." No one. You literally just made that up. If you wanted to drive people around for money you became a taxi driver or got a passenger carrier permit and became a private limo driver. Back in 2008 no one was thinking about how great it would be to drive random strangers around for minimum wage w…

> Uber started as a way to fill the downtime that professional drivers had between clients and jobs. They said, "Hey, there is a workforce with 50% of it's hours idle. I bet we can turn the into cash." Yeah, black cars with chauffeur licenses only. I remember thinking "a cab to the airport would be cheaper, but I'll pay a bit more to pamper myself -- I've never been in a black car!" just before I ordered my first eve…

UberX actually didn't start with normal unlicensed, uninsured drivers. UberX started as a "green" initiative. When UberX first started drivers still had to have a passenger carrier permit (TCP sticker) and commercial driving insurance. They just also had to have a Prius instead of a black car, and the cost was a little bit less. I think it was $10 or $12 minimum instead of $15. It wasn't until Lyft started by allowing any random person to drive at a much lower cost that Uber pivoted and turned UberX into what it is today.

It never even occurred to Uber that it would be possible to let random, uninsured people drivers others around for peanuts, or that people would be so desperate for cash that they'd even be willing to do that. It was purely a function of the financial collapse that made it possible.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#139

Post by dandare »

everyone wrote: post #126

For most people (not highly sought after programmers), its an erosion of what paltry remnant of their workers rights remains. Last time wealth inequality peaked, the robber barons had strike breakers and whatnot. This time (with wealth inequality continuing to soar to historically unprecedented heights) they have the 'gig economy'.

Did you even read the article? Gig economy isn't taking over, it slightly declined from 2005.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#140

Post by themagician »

orangecat wrote: post #136
themagician wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's completely revisionist history. No one was going around thinking, "I wish I could drive people around for extra money." No one. You literally just made that up. If you wanted to drive people around for money you became a taxi driver or got a passenger carrier permit and became a private limo driver. Back in 2008 no one was thinking about how great it would be to drive random strangers around for minimum wage w…

No one was going around thinking, "I wish I could drive people around for extra money." I'm pretty sure more than zero people have wanted part-time work with more flexible schedules than were commonly available. (See patio11: https://twitter.com/patio11/status/993186705850052610 )

Your example is a tweet from a wealthy software developer in 2018?

When unlicensed, unisnured people started driving for Uber and Lyft it wasn't because they wanted part-time work with "flexibility". It was because it was right after 2009, the unemployment rate was 10%, and people were desperate.

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