China hacked a Navy contractor and secured sensitive data on submarine warfare
21–30 of 46 posts
Re: China hacked a Navy contractor and secured sensitive data on submarine warfare
#22The US nuclear triad currently rests dangerously on the US Ohio-class submarines. If the Chinese military develops technology that can eliminate these subs in a surprise attack, they would potentially have the ability to take over the world. Step 1. Target the 1950s era US ICBM fleet in their static bunkers. This only requires making the POTUS hesitate for ~7 minutes to "use or lose" them. Step 2. Destroy the few doz…
Let me just quote the abstract from Jeffery Lewis's phd dissertation on the topic:
Among the 5 states authorized under the NPT to possess nuclear weapons, China has the most restrained pattern of deployment: The People"s Republic of China (PRC) operationally deploys about 80 nuclear warheads exclusively for usewith land"based ballistic missiles. Its declaratory doctrine rejects the initiation of nuclear war under any circumstance. The PRC does not maintain tactical nuclear forces of any kind, and its strategic forces are kept off alert, with warheads in storage. This posture has been sustained over time and changes in threat perception, suggesting restraint is the result of choice and not expediency.
Furthermore, most of the land based ballistic missiles China has deployed are targeted at India, and not capable of hitting the mainland US.
While the dissertation was written in 2004, essentially nothing substantial has changed since then.
Re: China hacked a Navy contractor and secured sensitive data on submarine warfare
#23Re: China hacked a Navy contractor and secured sensitive data on submarine warfare
#24The US nuclear triad currently rests dangerously on the US Ohio-class submarines. If the Chinese military develops technology that can eliminate these subs in a surprise attack, they would potentially have the ability to take over the world. Step 1. Target the 1950s era US ICBM fleet in their static bunkers. This only requires making the POTUS hesitate for ~7 minutes to "use or lose" them. Step 2. Destroy the few doz…
Even if you can find and take out a ballistic missile sub, you cannot with any certainty take out all of them. A single one of those Ohio-class submarine, and its 24 MIRVs is perfectly capable of killing hundreds of millions of people, if launched at China's coast.
China's nuclear arsenal, like the arsenals of France, India, Pakistan, and the United Kingdom, is purely defensive. Life is not a Tom Clancy novel. Russia and the United States are the only countries capable of carrying out a first strike against a nuclear state... And neither of them can do so against the other.
China is one of the countries with the most to lose, and the least to gain in a nuclear exchange.
Re: China hacked a Navy contractor and secured sensitive data on submarine warfare
#25So it's pretty obvious by now that we are actively at war with China and Russia on the cyber front. The question is, are we winning? Are we even fighting back?
We are actively fighting a cyber war with every country. The nations who we spy on the most are our allies. And the nations who spy on us the most are our allies. I know it's counterintuitive but it's international politics, geopolitics and intelligence 101.
For example, israel, Britain, Canada, germany, japan, south korea, etc spy on us the most. And naturally we spy on them too.
And taken a step even further, every nation's government spies the most on their own people. It's almost a certainty that intranational spying makes up most of the spying budgets of china, russia, britain, israel, US, germany, etc.
> The question is, are we winning?
Considering we are the epicenter of tech, what do you think? Considering our intelligence budgets dwarf both china and russia's budget combined, what do you think?
> Are we even fighting back?
Are you serious? Who do you think invented cyber spying? The internet was a DARPA project.
Do you really think only china and russia are spying?
Re: China hacked a Navy contractor and secured sensitive data on submarine warfare
#26Simply bar them from defense department work/contracts for 5 years and put any current contracts on hold. The other contractors will get the hint. Nothing ever gets done about this stuff, so the status quo remains.
That social graph will pay dividends decades after these missiles are decommissioned.
Conversely, if DoD contracts are sufficient, why aren't Facebook contracts? China doesn't care about contracts in either case. If you think a Chinese firm is going to honor a contract with an American company, you need to look up the Organization Department.
Re: China hacked a Navy contractor and secured sensitive data on submarine warfare
#27Why doesn't the US do something about that? China almost seems overt about stealing secrets like that.
Are you implying that the US are not actively doing the same against nations they see as a threat? It's basically how and why any intelligence service operates - know your enemy and keep up with their technological advances.
There has been a huge setback in US espionage in China...
Re: China hacked a Navy contractor and secured sensitive data on submarine warfare
#28So it's pretty obvious by now that we are actively at war with China and Russia on the cyber front. The question is, are we winning? Are we even fighting back?
> So it's pretty obvious by now that we are actively at war with China and Russia on the cyber front. We are actively fighting a cyber war with every country. The nations who we spy on the most are our allies. And the nations who spy on us the most are our allies. I know it's counterintuitive but it's international politics, geopolitics and intelligence 101. For example, israel, Britain, Canada, germany, japan, south…
I know some intelligence people. This isn't what they tell me. They tell me that western governments are obsessed with following the law and limiting what their cyber operations touch. It's born out by what I understand from non-classified sources. For example, I read through the source code of Stuxnet when it first came out. There was a ton of guards put in to limit the potential damage it made.
That Canada spies on the USA more than Russia is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard. Read the Snowden leaks and listen to natsec podcasts. The Russians are in a ton of the US infrastructure and the CIA is freaking out about it to the point where they consider cyber to be a bigger existential threat than a nuclear armed DPRK.
Re: China hacked a Navy contractor and secured sensitive data on submarine warfare
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So it's pretty obvious by now that we are actively at war with China and Russia on the cyber front. We are actively fighting a cyber war with every country. The nations who we spy on the most are our allies. And the nations who spy on us the most are our allies. I know it's counterintuitive but it's international politics, geopolitics and intelligence 101. For example, israel, Britain, Canada, germany, japan, south…
Citations needed. I know some intelligence people. This isn't what they tell me. They tell me that western governments are obsessed with following the law and limiting what their cyber operations touch. It's born out by what I understand from non-classified sources. For example, I read through the source code of Stuxnet when it first came out. There was a ton of guards put in to limit the potential damage it made. Th…
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cover-story-how-...
https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/opinions/limiting-israel-espi...
> I know some intelligence people. This isn't what they tell me.
I don't believe you know any intelligence people. And even if you did, I doubt they'd tell you anything. People who write "I know some intelligence people" on a web forum, usually don't know anyone.
> That Canada spies on the USA more than Russia is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/03/03/canada-turfed...
> The Russians are in a ton of the US infrastructure and the CIA is freaking out about it to the point where they consider cyber to be a bigger existential threat than a nuclear armed DPRK.
You might want to stop watching CNN/Foxnews/media. But of course russia is spying on us. But who do you think would have an easier time spying on us? The russians/chinese or our allies?
Just think. And you'll realize how much more sense it makes that allies should spy on each other more than enemies. But maybe you could ask your "intelligence people".
Re: China hacked a Navy contractor and secured sensitive data on submarine warfare
#30The US nuclear triad currently rests dangerously on the US Ohio-class submarines. If the Chinese military develops technology that can eliminate these subs in a surprise attack, they would potentially have the ability to take over the world. Step 1. Target the 1950s era US ICBM fleet in their static bunkers. This only requires making the POTUS hesitate for ~7 minutes to "use or lose" them. Step 2. Destroy the few doz…
Minuteman III is 1970s era.
>Destroy the few dozen 1950s era upgraded B-52s and a few misc aircraft.
That's actually incredibly hard.
>Step 3. Take out the ~14 outdated US ballistic missile subs using new supersonic anti-ship missiles.
Target subs with AShMs!? Come again?