Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law • Hacker News Board

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#211

Post by debt » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:54 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #102

I think this is an interesting and unintended consequence of AirBnB not investing nearly on filtering their users. AirBnB obviously was interested in getting their product used by as many people as people (growth at all costs) - but this had the effect of getting a lot of young, cost conscious people to take holidays in area that were traditionally residential. While most AirBnB renters are polite and respectful, eno…

AirBnB also immediately contributed to a very serious housing shortage and has contributed to rising rents everywhere.

The effects are just now being understood which why legislation is just now being enacted to taper it a bit.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#212

Post by samsonradu » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:55 PM UTC

nacho2sweet wrote: post #180

Fede_V wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wrap my mind around people that think that 'too many tourists' or 'too many jobs' are a problem. Those are 'problems' that most cities in the world would kill for: if we consider them problems it's because we are not nearly creative enough to take advantage of them. As a simple example: if we have too many tourists, give a progressive daily tax that's charged to every visitor that automatically includes museu…

Being a tourist and tourism is a luxury. Having affordable housing is a right.

Not trying to be cocky, but why is affordable housing a right in a capitalist society? Genuinely curious.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#213

Post by DINKDINK » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

kinsomo wrote: post #93

DINKDINK wrote: post #68

“The government knows how to segregate us properly” And “Everything will be cheaper by limiting people the ability to trade”

> “The government knows how to segregate us properly” The government is great place to balance competing interests, especially if it's more democratic. > And “Everything will be cheaper by limiting people the ability to trade” That's missing the point. The goal with regulations like these isn't to make things "cheaper," but to control negative externalities. There's more to life than the price of goods. Unfortunately…

>The goal with regulations like these isn't to make things "cheaper," but to control negative externalities.

Seeing as the proponents -- of regulations regarding who can trade what with whom -- first cited issue is "Affordability", categorically, yes, these regulations are about making things "cheaper".

>The government is great place to balance competing interests, especially if it's more democratic.

How successful has the US government been at balancing trillion dollar bailouts for the banking/political class and endless wars of murder? Building a system where the minutia of liberty can be taken away with a stroke of a pen unless millions of dollars are spent lobbying the political class is not what I'd call a "great place to balance competing interests".

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#214

Post by reustle » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #43

AirBnB never had many listings in Japan in the first place; when I was visiting there I always went with the agencies that specialized in short-term apartment rentals; those were best for price/quality ratio if you spent at least month there. And you could even get typical traditional Japanese apartments that way near important cultural landmarks. And observing typical Japanese customs like trash collection of certai…

I've previously lived in Tokyo over a year (many shorter trips) mainly in AirBnBs. Which agencies would you recommend?

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#215

Post by Xylakant » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:02 PM UTC

xapata wrote: post #203

Xylakant wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Which would be what exactly? He can’t have a license revoked since he’s not having one.

I meant "pay" in the literal sense of paying a fine.

I don’t know about anything but Germany, but here you’d have to sue the owner yourself. Enjoy. Well now, since AirBnB is illegal in Berlin he might actually get fined.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#216

Post by DINKDINK » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:03 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #81

DINKDINK wrote: post #68

“The government knows how to segregate us properly” And “Everything will be cheaper by limiting people the ability to trade”

qv the other thread on meaningless work, sometimes people find value in living in a city and neighborhood that isn't completely focused on extracting the maximum economic value at any cost.

>people find value in living in a city and neighborhood that isn't completely focused on extracting the maximum economic value at any cost.

More power to them. But why should we use violence means against peaceful people?

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#217

Post by biztos » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:03 PM UTC

Fede_V wrote: post #123

StavrosK wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, sorry. AirBnB is creating immense problems in tourist destinations, to the point where people in major cities in Greece (and other countries) are having trouble finding affordable permanent housing. Barcelona and Rome are overrun with tourists, and it's killing the cities. AirBnB should just go away, the market worked very well before it, even if things were a bit more expensive.

I can't wrap my mind around people that think that 'too many tourists' or 'too many jobs' are a problem. Those are 'problems' that most cities in the world would kill for: if we consider them problems it's because we are not nearly creative enough to take advantage of them. As a simple example: if we have too many tourists, give a progressive daily tax that's charged to every visitor that automatically includes museu…

Assuming the tourists have more money than the locals and anyone can rent their apartment out to tourists instead of long-term to locals, you pretty quickly get to a point where "AirBnB-able" housing stock is taken off the actual housing market.

This is a problem that can't be solved by building more housing, because that housing is not going to be built in the historic city centers where the tourists want to stay. (Also, it takes a while to build more housing.)

Wouldn't the real market solution be to build more hotels?

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#218

Post by biztos » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

fredley wrote: post #23

pjc50 wrote: post #16

Similar discussions are ongoing in lots of cities. In Edinburgh they're trying to pre-empt this a bit with voluntary restrictions: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-4... AirBnb creates "bad neighbours" by putting lots of tourists, some of whom behave badly, in formerly residential locations. It creates a whole new set of absentee landlords. If it were restricted to renting out places where th…

This is the approach taken in London: Anyone can AirBnB their property, but only for 90 days a year, unless you have special permission. This prevents people buying up/renting flats just to let them out on AirBnB and putting pressure on the already cripplingly bad housing situation.

Also similar in Berlin, though last I checked there were still quite a few whole flats available... at much higher prices. Makes me wonder if some people are just counting the fines as a cost of doing business.

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#219

Post by greggman » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

What's frustrating with AirBnB in Japan is AirBnB lets them lie about how many bedrooms they actually have. The excuse usually given is that Japanese count rooms differently but that is 100% provably false. As someone that's lived here 12 of the last 20 years you can see it's provably false by visiting any Japanese realtor or apartment listing site where there is zero ambiguity about the difference between 1 bedroom, 1 bedroom with a living room, dining room or both, and a 2 bedroom, or a 2 bedroom with living room and/or dining room.

This is important because of privacy. If it says 2 bedrooms it should actually have 2 bedrooms. Not a one bedroom and a living room with a sofa.

The fact that AirBnb endorses this really speaks to the integrity at AirBnb which AFAICT is fairly low (have documented lots of other similar issues with them)

Re: Nearly 80% of Japan’s Airbnbs removed in response to new home-share law

#220

Post by biztos » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:18 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #108

There's a lot of emphasis on bad behavior from Airbnb guests, but I think that's only part of it. Another big issue is that formerly residential communities often resist the conversion of housing that used to host neighbors (and especially kids) into short term tourist rentals. The pressure, and controversy, is especially intense in areas that are largely residential but immensely popular with tourists. The French qu…

> some people would like to trade their right to run a hotel out of their house in exchange for a legally enforced expectation that their neighbors won't either.

This! And: most of us thought we already had laws to that effect.

Also, even for the best-behaved guests I would not want to have regular AirBNB-ing in my building. There are young children and old people living here, and they deserve some presumption of safety, not just quiet.

(I do stay in AirBNBs myself sometimes, and I'm a very low-impact guest, but I recognize my opinion is a bit contradictory because of that.)