Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police' • Hacker News Board

Re: Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police'

#71

Post by toomuchtodo » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:37 PM UTC

bifrost wrote: post #70

diogenescynic wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they actually sell them? Who is buying this from them? I've seen a few homeless with them, but assumed they were trying to strip them down to recycle the metal, not sell for parts. Anyone actually know?

I've not stopped to ask, I'm assuming that someone's figured out how to remove the proprietary parts so that the scooters can be reused at will. I think metal recycling is also probable. I've heard that some scooter companies will offer rewards for scooters that were "lost" then returned, so thats probably pretty lucrative.

I would love for someone to do an investigative piece on this, to determine the unit economics of shucking the scooter as well as talk to those doing this.

Re: Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police'

#72

Post by ndespres » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #50

ndespres wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be no problem, however, with devoting a majority of most city streets to the abandoning of unoccupied passenger vehicles, and littering the sidewalks with signage of instructions to motorists regarding the lawful abandonment of their vehicles. That is more offensive than pay-to-unlock scooters on the sidewalk and should be addressed first.

>There seems to be no problem, however, with devoting a majority of most city streets to the abandoning of unoccupied passenger vehicles, and littering the sidewalks with signage of instructions to motorists regarding the lawful abandonment of their vehicles. That is more offensive than pay-to-unlock scooters on the sidewalk and should be addressed first. This is a nonsensical, straw man argument that is propped up o…

I pay my share of the burden for your bridges, roads, traffic cops, traffic lights, parking spaces, and the public health cost for your parking too. It's no straw man- the burden of automobile traffic on our society for the benefit of a few auto manufacturers is hugely out of proportion. I applaud any dent that any public or private entity can make into alternative modes of transportation. Is it a cash grab? Sure, in some respects. But if it results in a widened bike lane that scooters can share too, or a way for me to bike around the city without getting a car door to the face or worse, bring it on.

Dodging a parked scooter on the sidewalk is no more burdensome to me than having to step around every parking meter that crowds the sidewalk presently.

Re: Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police'

#73

Post by aprrrr » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:38 PM UTC

I don't understand the legal or ethical rationale that these scooters are different from any other items discarded on the sidewalk.

This is different from leaving your personal scooter for a few minutes while you shop, or from someone accidentally dropping their wallet or phone. If you intentionally strew things around in public and leave them there, why shouldn't anyone do with them as they like? How is this not littering for profit?

The reasoning of, "I left this thing on the sidewalk...I have no plans to come back for it any time soon...I hope someone comes along and wires me money to use it for a bit then drops it somewhere else...but don't you dare touch it unless you pay me!" seems specious.

That is not part of the social contract. No one has a reasonable expectation to use the sidewalk as an unattended warehouse or storefront for as long as they like. At best, this is gaming the question of what is or isn't abandoned property.

Re: Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police'

#74

Post by mikestew » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:41 PM UTC

aprrrr wrote: post #73

I don't understand the legal or ethical rationale that these scooters are different from any other items discarded on the sidewalk. This is different from leaving your personal scooter for a few minutes while you shop, or from someone accidentally dropping their wallet or phone. If you intentionally strew things around in public and leave them there, why shouldn't anyone do with them as they like? How is this not lit…

Almost a literal example of the tragedy of the commons, only with scooters instead of cows. Or privatize the profits, socialize the costs. I dunno, pick whatever metaphor fits you best, but it stills boils down to, "find a loophole in the social contract and exploit it."

Re: Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police'

#75

Post by SolarNet » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

_rpd wrote: post #28

ceejayoz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's a genuinely baffling decision. A polite "Hey! Looks like you're checking out our scooter! For more info, head to example.com - use COUPONCODE for $5 off your first ride!" seems like it'd be equally effective at getting the message across and far less off-putting.

Maybe they are experiencing really high levels of theft and are desperate to do something to stem the loss?

Maybe they shouldn't litter them on random sidewalks then.

Re: Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police'

#76

Post by SolarNet » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:47 PM UTC

larrik wrote: post #3

I don't really see the racism slant the article is trying to paint all over this stupidity.

Because there isn't a systemic problem with people who look like you getting shot for no reason when they talk to the police.

Re: Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police'

#77

Post by reustle » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

post_break wrote: post #47

Old_Thrashbarg wrote: post #43

Scooters are litter? Are parked cars litter? What about when a restaurants put a chair or table outside on the sidewalk? Maybe a closer analogy is the other kind of electric scooter (as in the mopeds like Scoot). Never heard them called litter. So is being on the sidewalk vs the street what determines if it's litter?

Imagine if a company like uber bought thousands of smart cars. Parked them on all the streets. And said there ya go, now you can rent me! Meanwhile people who normally parked on the streets couldn't because these short lease cars were there. I would say that's littering.

Have you ever visited a city with car2go or DriveNow?

Re: Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police'

#78

Post by protomyth » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:00 PM UTC

foobarbazetc wrote: post #42

thucydidesofusa wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I view the police as dangerous but recognize their danger as a necessary cost for effectiveness. I'm afraid of the police, but I'm more afraid of no police.

This is a very US centric view of policing.

This is a very regional US centric view of policing.

Re: Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police'

#79

Post by gojomo » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

aprrrr wrote: post #73

I don't understand the legal or ethical rationale that these scooters are different from any other items discarded on the sidewalk. This is different from leaving your personal scooter for a few minutes while you shop, or from someone accidentally dropping their wallet or phone. If you intentionally strew things around in public and leave them there, why shouldn't anyone do with them as they like? How is this not lit…

Huh? In a high-trust society, you absolutely can leave personal or business property in a shared public area, with the vague expectation it will be moved/reclaimed "soonish" (such as "before nightfall" or "within a day").

In some cases, there are posted limits: 2-hour parking; 72-hour maximum; etc.

You can also often leave temporary signs/markings (like sidewalk chalk or "garage sale"/"lost pet" posters). You can hand out flyers/coupons or solicit signatures on the sidewalks. You can monopolize a public field/court for a temporary period simply by starting to play/picnic there with friends. You can leave boxes/deliveries/garbage on sidewalks and in parking-spaces for later pick-up.

How can there be confusion that a branded scooter, which squawks when moved without authorization (just like other laptop/vehicle/shopping-cart/shoplifting security devices), is "abandoned property"?

Further, both the proprietor's needs (to recharge/inventory) and typical usage patterns mean these scooters seldom stay in one spot for more than a few hours – the same commons impact as if they were widely-owned personal scooters.

So dockless scooters look to me like an innovative use of the commons, fairly analogous to other precedents. Sure, if specific negatives are detected, and outweigh the positive until ameliorated, new rules could then be required.

But in a free, high-trust country, the default should be permissiveness until harm can be shown. It's obtuse to shoehorn something new into the category of "litter", when that's clearly not the intent of those responsible nor the practical impact.

Re: Scooters littering US city streets alarm: 'Unlock me or I'll call the police'

#80

Post by kazinator » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #66

kazinator wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone was stealing your stuff, who would you call, then? Let's assume for a moment that it's a good idea for the scooters to threaten to call someone. (It isn't, but let's bear with this). Who should the the scooters threaten to call? "I will call Reverend James from the parish down the street?" "I will call your mother?" "I will call the fire department?"

> If someone was stealing your stuff, who would you call, then? Homeowners/renters insurance?

You'd first call insurance the moment you caught someone in the act?

So, let's get this straight: it would be an improvement for the scooters to blast: "Don't steal me, or else I will call the insurance company to be replaced".