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NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

arstechnica.com

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Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#501

Post by btilly »

metafunctor wrote: post #426
raldi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The paint on the right edge of the gore marking, as seen in Google Maps, is worn Indeed; here's a close-up of the critical area. Note that the darker stripe on the bottom of the photo is NOT the crucial one; the one that the car was supposed to follow is the much more faded one above that that you can barely see: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.410912,-122.0757037,3a,75y,2... (Note that I'm not blaming the faded pa…

Are these kinds of lane-dividers not painted with heavy yellow diagonal stripes in the US? Is the divider equipped with reflective material and/or lights to make sure drivers notice it? Is the divider actually necessary, or could it be replaced with gravel so people don't need to hit a concrete wall when they make a mistake? I don't think a road like this would be possible in most of the EU. Autopilot needs to be fix…

How often do non-autopilot cars fatally crash here? This does look like a bit of death trap to me!

A non-autopilot car crashed at this exact spot a week earlier. This crumpled a barrier that is intended to cushion cars going off the road here, and contributed to the death of the Tesla driver.

The fact that a human crashed at this exact spot confirms that it really is an unsafe death trap.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#502

Post by FireBeyond »

Robotbeat wrote: post #342
FireBeyond wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's "rather unlikely" to the point of implausibility, that even the human drivers who have crashed into that barrier: 1) _aimed directly at it_ rather than glancing blows/swerving at the last moment, etc., and 2) _accelerated beyond the speed limit as they did_, rather than applying any form of braking, let alone AEB.

> I think it's "rather unlikely" to the point of implausibility, that even the human drivers who have crashed into that barrier. So implausible that the barrier was destroyed just weeks earlier by a human driver?

I find it equally implausible that you willfully ignored the context of my quotes. To the extent that you literally changed the colon that lead to the context of those quotes into a period to make it sound like that was the extent of my statement.

Yes, human drivers crash into crash barriers, as noted.

Now, how many of those human drivers "actively aimed at the barrier", as the NTSB stated? And how many of those human drivers, having aimed at the barrier, "then accelerated in excess of the speed limit" as they did so?

And if you do reply, try not to take sentence fragments as an excuse to change quotes to misrepresent someone's statements.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#503

Post by stephengillie »

twblalock wrote: post #34
27182818284 wrote: post #13

The NTSB report confirms that. The crash attenuator—an accordion-like barrier that's supposed to cushion a vehicle when it crashes into the lane separator—had been damaged the previous week when a Toyota Prius crashed at the same location. The resulting damage made the attenuator ineffective and likely contributed to Huang's death. kinda sounds like maybe that part of the road isn't well designed or marked too.

Any kind of self-driving system that is going to be usable and safe in the real world needs to be able to deal with the kind of roads we have in the real world. Maybe one day, when the majority of cars are self-driving, road design will change. To get there, self-driving cars will need to prove themselves on today's roads so people will buy them.

Can all driving situations on all roadways today be computed in Polynomial time? Or are some NP? Some intersections are known to be complex for humans to navigate.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#504

Post by stephengillie »

wpdev_63 wrote: post #499
gscott wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/thumb--drive

What does a thumbdrive have anything to do with what I posted? It's not mentioned in the story or what I said.

Supposedly gscott suggested incriminating evidence - a USB drive of child porn in this instance - would be regularly planted on political targets such as Snowden.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#505

Post by alejohausner »

raldi wrote: post #76
Animats wrote: post #42

NTSB: • At 8 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla was following a lead vehicle and was traveling about 65 mph. • At 7 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla began a left steering movement while following a lead vehicle. • At 4 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla was no longer following a lead vehicle. • At 3 seconds prior to the crash and up to the time of impact with the crash attenuator, the Tesla’s speed increas…

> The paint on the right edge of the gore marking, as seen in Google Maps, is worn Indeed; here's a close-up of the critical area. Note that the darker stripe on the bottom of the photo is NOT the crucial one; the one that the car was supposed to follow is the much more faded one above that that you can barely see: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.410912,-122.0757037,3a,75y,2... (Note that I'm not blaming the faded pa…

I have noticed that, on two-lane non-divided roads, the dividing line (separating you from oncoming traffic) is yellow, while the right-side solid line is white. White means it's safe to cross the line, but yellow means it's dangerous to cross it.

You can see that yellow line at the accident site.

Now, why didn't they start a new yellow line where the lane split? That would give drivers (and software) an important cue: if you are driving down a "lane" with a yellow line on the right, something is seriously wrong!

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#506

Post by xab9 »

Maybestring wrote: post #202
xab9 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money.

I'm not sure it's in Tesla's financial interest. Misleading statements give the plaintiffs more room to argue for punitive damages, and California juries have awarded tremendous punitive damages on auto companies.

Tesla is a symbol, Musk is a strong personality. To me it's the same as when Jobs said during the antenna fiasco that "you're holding it wrong".

Being a symbol, being an entity that creates objects of desire is financially beneficial to the company. The question is, who's message will the potential customers hear: the NTSB's or Musk's?

Of course I'm not saying that this is a good strategy - Tesla may as well fall from grace eventually, but the bully is ultimately powered by greed and hunger - for adoration, for money, for financial gains.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#507

Post by wpdev_63 »

stephengillie wrote: post #504
wpdev_63 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does a thumbdrive have anything to do with what I posted? It's not mentioned in the story or what I said.

Supposedly gscott suggested incriminating evidence - a USB drive of child porn in this instance - would be regularly planted on political targets such as Snowden.

Yeah but who mentioned the usb drive?

illuminati in play

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#508

Post by raldi »

alejohausner wrote: post #505
raldi wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The paint on the right edge of the gore marking, as seen in Google Maps, is worn Indeed; here's a close-up of the critical area. Note that the darker stripe on the bottom of the photo is NOT the crucial one; the one that the car was supposed to follow is the much more faded one above that that you can barely see: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.410912,-122.0757037,3a,75y,2... (Note that I'm not blaming the faded pa…

I have noticed that, on two-lane non-divided roads, the dividing line (separating you from oncoming traffic) is yellow, while the right-side solid line is white. White means it's safe to cross the line, but yellow means it's dangerous to cross it. You can see that yellow line at the accident site. Now, why didn't they start a new yellow line where the lane split? That would give drivers (and software) an important cu…

In the United States, "A yellow line (solid or dashed) indicates that crossing the line will place a driver in a lane where opposing traffic is coming at the driver."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_line_(road_marking)#Uni...

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#509

Post by jaclaz »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #421
lscotte wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, Tesla doesn't have auto emergency braking? Even my Kia has that - adaptive cruise for following cars, auto emergency braking for stationary objects (and when the car in front of you suddenly slows down). Yeah, I'll keep my Kia...

My 2015 S70D (AP1 presumably) does start complaining if it thinks I'm about to collide with a stationary vehicle. Whether it would actually stop the car is not something I have had the nerve to test. Perhaps I should find a deserted car park and put out some cardboard boxes and see what happens. The problem is that cardboard doesn't reflect radar well.

JFYI, a (five year old) video from "Fifth Gear":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzHM6PVTjXo

I simply love the inflated "dummy car".

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