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You're never too old to learn to code

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Re: You're never too old to learn to code

#61

Post by Clubber »

mikestew wrote: post #60
Clubber wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No need to get personal. Eh, if you don't want backlash, maybe you shouldn't throw out things like this: "your sixteen year old self to write shitty JS code" >you said there was "zero economic incentive" I said, "there was zero economic incentive, at least for me." If you're going to be pedantic, at least read what I wrote.

Eh, if you don't want backlash, maybe you shouldn't throw out things like this: "your sixteen year old self to write shitty JS code" You're just bound and determined to take offense, eh? Let me rephrase: "no need to make it personally about you, Clubber". If you're going to be pedantic, at least read what I wrote. I read just fine: "When people like us started doing it, there was zero economic incentive..."

Mike, if you are going to talk shit, at least own it; don't backpedal.

>I read just fine: "When people like us started doing it, there was zero economic incentive..."

Lol. "You didn't build that..."

Re: You're never too old to learn to code

#62

Post by buserror »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #59
mikestew wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coding is a calling. No, a job as a Christian pastor (being the first to come to mind) is a "calling". Shitty pay, every single person in a pew is your "boss", little-to-no retirement plan and 24/7 pager duty with no pager bonus. But, hey, you're not in it for the money. A job with flexible hours, employer matching, and a six figure salary is a "damned cushy job", not a calling. It might be for some, but it is not a…

No. Everything can be a calling. Many of us didn't learn coding because it was lucrative, we learned at a young age because the intimate relationship between mind and machine drew us further in. You played a game and wondered how it was programmed, how could a bit of light in the screen could know when other bit of light touched it? It was a challenging and rewarding hobby that luckily turned lucrative. Even if it co…

Oh, I really like your reply, thanks for that.

I remember clearly one day when I was about 10 yo, I was walking to school, and there was that question poping in my head about what I really wanted to do, and there was only one reply in my head -> programming computers. It felt so totally cool to be able to do that. Note than nobody in my near, middle or far social circle was involved, but I was an avid reader that I've read about it, and I thought it was fascinating. That was 'calling' to me. Hasn't changed.

Funnily enough I also 'graduated' myself to electronics the last 10 years, and I've tinkered with cameras, and watches... One thing I'm seriously looking into is to get my first 'project' pinball as well. Bring it on ;-)

Re: You're never too old to learn to code

#63

Post by buserror »

petra wrote: post #21
buserror wrote: post #13

While I agree that in principle you can learn to code at any age, I think this article misses the entire point of every "learn to code" article. Whether it's kids, women, oldies etc etc. Coding is a calling. You can learn anything if you have the calling for it. If you learn because you 'should' (ie, it's encouraged by others and or/money) you will end up being average at it, at best. Coding is not for everyone, it's…

>> you will end up being average at it, at best. What's wrong with being average and making a living ? assuming of course there's place for average people in this field ? someone need to write those simple but boring CRUD.

Well, you won't be happy in your job. Personally I don't feel spending your life in a job that isn't really "for" you is a nice way to spend most of the hours of day for most of your life...

Also, you'll be the first to be obsoleted, automated, replaced by a nice framework made by someone who had an itch to scratch at the other end of the world; you know, a weird guy with a calling ;-)

I do realize I'm lucky to do a job I still love, but my originally point is that perhaps we shoudn't 'force' people into a path they won't enjoy ; worse, you might make quite a few unhappy ones if some realize they aren't made for it after a while.

The "coding is easy, come and play" slogans we see around are false advertising.

Re: You're never too old to learn to code

#64

Post by workinthehead »

buserror wrote: post #63
petra wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> you will end up being average at it, at best. What's wrong with being average and making a living ? assuming of course there's place for average people in this field ? someone need to write those simple but boring CRUD.

Well, you won't be happy in your job. Personally I don't feel spending your life in a job that isn't really "for" you is a nice way to spend most of the hours of day for most of your life... Also, you'll be the first to be obsoleted, automated, replaced by a nice framework made by someone who had an itch to scratch at the other end of the world; you know, a weird guy with a calling ;-) I do realize I'm lucky to do a…

Being "happy" in your job is really a luxury for most people. Plenty of people are happy just to be able to pay their bills and if they are lucky, own a home/raise a family.

I don't think anybody is being "forced" into coding.

Re: You're never too old to learn to code

#65

Post by workinthehead »

arif_sohaib wrote: post #52

What I really hate about articles like this is they try to convince people we are just rolling in money and job opportunities just staring at our screens and use that to flood the market with people who don't care about anything but the money and use them to lower salaries for the rest of us. I don't seem to come across nearly as much articles like this for nurses, paralegals, chefs and other such professions that pa…

Take a look around you. Anyone who tried to get into coding just for the money washed out long ago, or if they're lucky they're computer janitors at gigantocorp.

Re: You're never too old to learn to code

#66

Post by workinthehead »

papabrown wrote: post #51
Finnucane wrote: post #30

I'm in my 50s, but I'm learning to code, but I'm not exactly new to it. I just didn't do it for a long time and now it's a rather different world from doing Fortran on 110-baud Decwriters. I got into an electrical engineering program, but dropped out when I discovered that the number of times they let you fail differential equations is finite. I ended up with a career in publishing. No regrets, really, but now publis…

Another 50+ guy here. I've been thinking about getting back into coding after a multi-decade hiatus. I taught myself to code in my early 20's. Coded through my early 30's and have been in management roles (involving software development or for technology companies) ever since. I went from Perl to Java (hated Java) to PHP and have played around with tons of languages (just enough to complete the project) in between. R…

Remote jobs can be tough too. It's hard to get paid what you're worth, and you have to do extra work to be visible to the non-remote employees so that you aren't perceived as the guy who does 2 hours of real work while wearing pajamas.

I thought I had the perfect remote gig a little while ago, but the organization was so insipid and backwards that I had to leave. I found a job that's perfect for me and is a short commute and enjoy it way better.

Re: You're never too old to learn to code

#67

Post by workinthehead »

some_account wrote: post #18
droidist2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob) also has this view, and I think it's much more true than the "once you hit 40 you get forced out of engineering and into management" meme.

Older people have a hard time keeping up with young guns who sit on their spare time however. You usually have family, kids, less energy etc as a 40 year old. Experience is good but I've found that it's impossible to know new things as well as young people since you have a life outside work. According to jetbrains survey, 85% of developers work on weekends.

All the young people I know are frittering away their evenings and weekends drinking and going to festivals. The idea that they are poring studiously over some machine learning textbook is pretty laughable.

Re: You're never too old to learn to code

#68

Post by papabrown »

workinthehead wrote: post #66
papabrown wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another 50+ guy here. I've been thinking about getting back into coding after a multi-decade hiatus. I taught myself to code in my early 20's. Coded through my early 30's and have been in management roles (involving software development or for technology companies) ever since. I went from Perl to Java (hated Java) to PHP and have played around with tons of languages (just enough to complete the project) in between. R…

Remote jobs can be tough too. It's hard to get paid what you're worth, and you have to do extra work to be visible to the non-remote employees so that you aren't perceived as the guy who does 2 hours of real work while wearing pajamas. I thought I had the perfect remote gig a little while ago, but the organization was so insipid and backwards that I had to leave. I found a job that's perfect for me and is a short com…

I'm not overly concerned about getting the best rate. If I wanted to make the maximum possible I would stay in management and ride things out until retirement.

I have savings that I don't want to have to tap into so I can just let it grow for another 10 years or so. Really, I just need to make enough to cover my monthly expenses and have health insurance.

Also, I've managed development projects across multiple continents (US, Europe, Middle-East, and Asia), so I'm hoping that I have a pretty good understanding of what management needs to make them feel comfortable.

It's probably a little different for me because I'm not necessarily looking to advance my career the way someone earlier in their career might. Obviously, I want to do a good job and add value, but I could just as easily teach scuba diving or something.

I code because I like it. It also pays better than average. A good combo.

Re: You're never too old to learn to code

#69

Post by ElixirIsCool »

enraged_camel wrote: post #48
ElixirIsCool wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The NEXT trap is to realize that your time is limited. You can't learn everything and you have to be very, VERY selective on the set of tech you want to invest your time in. Don't bangwagon on stuff -- ask yourself whether it's likely to be a selleable skill -- if not, don't waste time on it. As someone with limited health and daily brain power I struggle with this. I have played with a number of programming languag…

Learning languages for which there are lots of jobs might sound attractive, but let me offer a different perspective: it is difficult to shine and become renowned in well-established ecosystems because so many people have so much headstart. Sure you might be able to get a job, but you will also be much easier to replace. In contrast, new and exciting ecosystems (like Elixir) give you the opportunity to become a big f…

Thank you for your reply. It's very insightful.

Re: You're never too old to learn to code

#70

Post by mabynogy »

We miss highlevel IDEs (like Smalltalk, Excel or even Scratch and Eve) for people who are ready to program something but won't be able to use the tradional workflow based on shell commands and textfiles.

Expecting people to massively learn programming as we know it is an illusion and even a scam (like bootcamps).

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