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Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

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Re: Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

#61

Post by JoeAltmaier »

spoiledtechie wrote: post #38
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such programs exist already. The SMART program for instance, which links college scholarship to a job. Companies do it all the time.

They do it for black kids? Do they go into the inner cities and ask around?

Lets talk money instead of 'race' e.g. the Latino problem is similar, so money is probably the more important factor. Other programs like QuestBridge work hard to recruit folks who are underrepresented, either by family income or kids who are first in their family to attend college.

Re: Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

#62

Post by pmichaud »

weiming wrote: post #4

I'm not originally from America, so I seem to be missing something in articles like this. Why does no one talk about the "pipeline problem," that is, encouraging many more people from "minority" groups (black, women, and so on) to pursue coding from young age? (Edit: or encouraging these groups to enter the field at any age, such as through the community college system/Coursera/etc.) It seems like examining the end o…

I think the key factor you're missing is that this issue is deeply political and historical. This isn't just a question about what's on the label, ie. black people being hired proportionally, but also about whose fault/responsibility it is to fix. If you say "should we look at other parts of the pipeline?" you're aligning yourself with the political faction of "it's black peoples' problem, not society's." If you advocate for hiring quotas or similar, then you're aligning yourself with the "it's society's problem, not black peoples'"

Of course real solutions to the problem are somewhere in between, and you can argue until you're blue in the face that suggesting looking at other parts of the pipeline is NOT actually saying it's black peoples' problem, but it won't matter. You're in a space where there are powerful political divisions with the entire socioracial history of a large population at sake, and you're going to ruthlessly rounded to either US or THEM.

That's a big part of the reason it's so hard to talk about, and harder still to solve, even before you get to the fact that even without the deep psychological and political baggage it's already a super hard problem.

Re: Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

#63

Post by wmil »

weiming wrote: post #4

I'm not originally from America, so I seem to be missing something in articles like this. Why does no one talk about the "pipeline problem," that is, encouraging many more people from "minority" groups (black, women, and so on) to pursue coding from young age? (Edit: or encouraging these groups to enter the field at any age, such as through the community college system/Coursera/etc.) It seems like examining the end o…

The short answer is that Google has money and articles like this are about activists trying to get money from Google to fund various programs.

Re: Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

#64

Post by protonimitate »

noetic_techy wrote: post #45
protonimitate wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because addressing the pipeline problem means admitting that racism is still alive and embedded in the foundations of our education and work force system. You can't expect there to be more workers if there's no applicants. There are no applicants because there is a severe lack of Black people (among other groups) represented in Engineering/STEM degree programs. That stems from a lack of good public school education.…

> when really we as a national don't honestly want to see marginalized groups succeed How does that explain the success of Asian Americans?

I think that depends on how you measure success.

Strictly in business terms, sure they have more success than other groups, but I don't think (assuming here, no facts) they have over taken White people as the predominant group in leadership roles, high paying positions, or otherwise 'stakeholders'.

If that's not true, feel free to correct.

Re: Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

#65

Post by scottlamb »

sb8244 wrote: post #34

I try to avoid conversations like this rather than engage directly because I'm likely to question results until things are more proven. However, I'm seeing things like this more often and want to become more informed. When looking at the percentage population of Americans with bachelor's degree (general req for software company), should we see a reflection of that pool in tech companies? I found some census informati…

5% isn't great, but it's still higher than the 2-3% actually employed by these companies, suggesting improvement is possible.

I think one major problem that's in the companies' power to solve is that they don't have offices where black people live (e.g. Atlanta). Coming to work for these companies means being isolated from the black community both at and outside of work.

Re: Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

#66

Post by projectramo »

n1231231231234 wrote: post #57
projectramo wrote: post #29

For all of those who claim it might be a pipeline problem, I looked it up and it looks like 4% of engineering degrees are granted (earned? Awarded?) to African Americans https://www.aps.org/programs/education/statistics/aamajors.c... Ill leave the interpretation up to you

but isn't this inline with the original article? > Blacks made up 7 percent of U.S. high-tech workforce, and just 3 percent of the total Silicon Valley workforce. 4% of the degrees are granted to members of the AA community, 3% of the jobs in SV are given to them. i guess SV companies recruit from the top graduates. it would be interesting to know the percentage of AA of say the top 10% graduates in the STEM fields.…

Yes, so your line of questioning is the one I would follow.

I agree the next question is what is the percentage of AA grads from top schools where they recruit before one makes a call on the prevalence of the pipeline problem.

Re: Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

#67

Post by ardent_uno »

protonimitate wrote: post #20
weiming wrote: post #4

I'm not originally from America, so I seem to be missing something in articles like this. Why does no one talk about the "pipeline problem," that is, encouraging many more people from "minority" groups (black, women, and so on) to pursue coding from young age? (Edit: or encouraging these groups to enter the field at any age, such as through the community college system/Coursera/etc.) It seems like examining the end o…

Because addressing the pipeline problem means admitting that racism is still alive and embedded in the foundations of our education and work force system. You can't expect there to be more workers if there's no applicants. There are no applicants because there is a severe lack of Black people (among other groups) represented in Engineering/STEM degree programs. That stems from a lack of good public school education.…

Many once marginalized groups do exceedingly well in American society today.

Quality public and private education is available to black students, but one major problem is that inner-city schools tend to have very high dropout rates which is not the fault of the schools but rather the broader culture of the communities.

The American people are not to blame for the pipeline problem. Instead, blame broken families. Blame a culture which does not offer to young black children professional role models.

Blaming racism for all of our problems is a dead end.

For more reading about this, consider the brilliant Coleman Hughes:

The High Price of Stale Grievances https://quillette.com/2018/06/05/high-price-stale-grievances...

Re: Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

#68

Post by Ivoirians »

weiming wrote: post #4

I'm not originally from America, so I seem to be missing something in articles like this. Why does no one talk about the "pipeline problem," that is, encouraging many more people from "minority" groups (black, women, and so on) to pursue coding from young age? (Edit: or encouraging these groups to enter the field at any age, such as through the community college system/Coursera/etc.) It seems like examining the end o…

That's certainly a good point--and tech companies are pumping money into teaching minorities to code (check the partners of YesWeCode, WomenWhoCode, BlackGirlsCode, AnitaB, etc.). But you don't have to exclusively treat problems at the root.

I think one of the oft-overlooked ideas behind hiring diversity initiatives and affirmative action policies in general is that creating more role models, leaders, and advocates for minorities does have an impact on making the field more welcome for young minorities.

Re: Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

#69

Post by ardent_uno »

camelNotation wrote: post #60
weiming wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when really we as a national don't honestly want to see marginalized groups succeed This sounds like a very big statement and probably something that can be a long post in itself. Would you be able to expound on that?

There's a popular theory among the American left that classical liberalism (free speech, freedom of association, "equality of opportunity", etc) is actually an oppressive social structure devised by powerful white men to keep the poor and disenfranchised (minorities and women) from rising through the economic ranks. In the estimation of the American left, the "hands-off" approach of right-wing American politics is ac…

"since no one that is poor or disenfranchised can rise from poverty to wealth on their own."

That's where the liberal view collapses. The experience of history shows that many once disenfranchised groups can rise up.

Re: Tech Companies Still Aren’t Hiring Black Workers

#70

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

weiming wrote: post #4

I'm not originally from America, so I seem to be missing something in articles like this. Why does no one talk about the "pipeline problem," that is, encouraging many more people from "minority" groups (black, women, and so on) to pursue coding from young age? (Edit: or encouraging these groups to enter the field at any age, such as through the community college system/Coursera/etc.) It seems like examining the end o…

Everybody talks about the pipeline problem, it's just whatever specific stage of the pipeline you're at it's much easier to shunt responsibility down to an earlier stage.

Having problems hiring black tech workers? It's the college's fault.

Having problems graduating black students with BSs in STEM? It's the high school's fault.

Having problems graduating black students from high school? Really it's the fault of the community/family that raised them.

Having problems fixing the community's culture? Really it's the fault of poverty.

Having problems fixing poverty? Really it's the fact that no good jobs will hire us.

The answer is that everyone plays a role and that includes google. We all like to envision that we're not a part of the 'pipeline', we're exactly where it ends. It never ends, the pipe is your whole life and you never leave it. Seen that way, one pipe connecting to another and another and no one outside ever feeling that it's really their place to intervene is how we get oppression handed down through the generations. There is no 'root' cause because it's a circle, wherever you exist in this pipeline is where you have the power to help solve the problem so let's stop shunting blame down the line.

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