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The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

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Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#401

Post by loco5niner »

Alterlife wrote: post #387
aspenmayer wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...and as one of them incompetent developers in India, I feel the need to defend myself. In your original sentence, you are trying to use "them" as an adjective to modify "incompetent developers," but "them" should only be used as a 3rd person plural pronoun. Using "them" as an adjective is not proper; your examples sound strange to native speakers, and is usually associated with vernacular English in general. Nati…

The first example is straight out of the oxford dictionary link that I posted. It's at the bottom of the page under "Informal, dialect". https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/them A couple of other examples: 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB33z9xoSw8&feature=youtu.be... 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elUsB4y5RVk There are plenty more examples on Google. -- I want to say I take your point. I wouldn't us…

I saw the dictionary entry. Still, take it from a native (US)speaker. The only time you would want to use it is either in jest, or to sound like an uneducated hillbilly.

*edit - I will add that the 2 youtube videos are not good examples to be learning english from...

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#402

Post by RandomCSGeek »

TLDR: The best go to US, the next best to MNCs and startups, the rest are the ones you get when you pay peanuts.

Here's how Indian engineers get jobs.

The very top(maybe 0.01%) get directly hired by US MNCs. This gives some people the "Indians are smart" stereotype.

The next top(0.01% - 1%) work for US MNCs in India, or the few top homebred companies. Foreigners will rarely deal with them, as they are working on products, not services.

The next few go into startups and some good service companies. These service companies are costly, after all, they have to pay much higher than what Infosys or TCS would do, to maintain these people. I don't know how many american tech workers come across these people, but a few must be. These people are probably the source of few comments saying that "some Indian workers I worked with were good".

Now, the lower ones, will get into likes of TCS, Infosys and hundreds of small service companies that work on basis of "hire enmasse, at cheap, and sell at little higher cost". Now if you are paying peanuts, it is very foolish to expect people like Linus Torvalds. This gives people the, "Indian engineers are shit" stereotype.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#403

Post by RandomCSGeek »

cc-d wrote: post #191
koolhead17 wrote: post #150

We have a saying here in India: "You pay peanuts, you hire donkeys". So a lot many comments in the thread is either generalization or a confirmation bias. The India I know and software developers I know of are no less either in dream or dedication from peers in Silicon Valley or any other part of developed world. :)

>We have a saying here in India: "You pay peanuts, you hire donkeys". That is amazingly similar to the common english proverb: "You pay peanuts, you get monkeys." Did you translate the Indian (not sure which language) proverb using the english proverb as a base, or does it directly translate?

I have heard of another proverb, which translates to "If you throw peanuts, only monkeys will gather".

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#404

Post by RandomCSGeek »

starpilot wrote: post #315

Is it just me or do Indians greatly prefer to communicate and delegate tasks over phone versus email? I'm working with subcontractors right now, and it makes it a pain when it means doing daily calls late at night or early in the morning to talk to them in India.

Never heard of any bias towards phone. If anything, people prefer email as it leaves a trail.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#405

Post by kamaal »

pwneduser wrote: post #388
kamaal wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I said - "Engineers working for product companies where they get paid and recognised for good product instead of outsourcing companies show true passion and creativity." How does this change in a service company? Programmers who write code in a service company show none of these traits, same programmer writes code in a product company and magically becomes passionate and creative. >>In this case, it was a Word doc…

"How does this change in a service company?" You need to work for a good product company to understand that. From your other comments, clearly you work for a non-FANG, perhaps for a services company or another non-services company that do not seem to have the kind of work and expertise Google or Amazon has. You are also too biased to be completely blind to the possibility that must be some factors other than money be…

And no amount of writing going to convince you that a programmers job at cognizant is better than being sysadmin at Google.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#406

Post by thedevilslawyer »

loco5niner wrote: post #345
imglorp wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some cultures, you're smart to get ahead any way you can, and they'd call anyone a fool who followed some set of rules or principles instead of getting ahead. For them, rules are artificial, arbitrary social constructs with zero benefit, while results are concrete. It's hard to argue they're wrong.

> and they'd call anyone a fool who followed some set of rules or principles instead of getting ahead > It's hard to argue they're wrong. Except for the fact that in this very thread there seems to be quite a backlash against them. Seems to be very short-term and selfish thinking.

If the cost of multi-multi-billion dollar industry is backlash on the internet forums, that's hardly a difficult choice.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#407

Post by thedevilslawyer »

kamaal wrote: post #273
parylose wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is they have to give three month's notice when quitting a job. When other companies or headhunters learn that you gave notice, they do their best to hire you away from whatever new job you took. Our HR Department now calls new-hires every couple of days to keep them engaged so they don't take a job elsewhere. It sucks when you hire someone, plan things three months in advance, and.... they don't show up t…

>>It sucks when you hire someone, plan things three months in advance, and.... they don't show up to the job without ever telling you they took a job somewhere else. And yet nobody ever agrees to lower the 3 month notice period rule.

The workers want no notice period.

The industry wants 3 months, so their benches are warm, and they can handle the buffer better.

How thoroughly one side has won indicates how thoroughly the power is held. One could call it legal enslavement.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#408

Post by _Tev »

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #407
kamaal wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>It sucks when you hire someone, plan things three months in advance, and.... they don't show up to the job without ever telling you they took a job somewhere else. And yet nobody ever agrees to lower the 3 month notice period rule.

The workers want no notice period. The industry wants 3 months, so their benches are warm, and they can handle the buffer better. How thoroughly one side has won indicates how thoroughly the power is held. One could call it legal enslavement.

The period is for both sides, so you cannot really say

> The workers want no notice period.

Im my anecdotal experience nobody wants "no notice period"

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#409

Post by _Tev »

chappar wrote: post #271
mieseratte wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At work, we've had issues with Indian candidates informing us during interviews that they've already recently accepted an offer / started a new job, but that they're willing to come work for us instead. Completely oblivious to the fact of how big of an immediate red flag that is.

I am not sure how you can generalize. I would not consider it as a red flag unless the candidate in question has history of hopping too quickly. I have direct/indirect experience of being both the sides. I once left a company in couple of months because company's culture was totally different than what I expected. I have also seen a friend of mine getting fired in couple of months after joining a company because comp…

I think the key word is "recently". It might have been many months already for the interviewing guy, but it sounds more like 2-8 weeks ago, and that is really fast (==bad) job hopping.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#410

Post by whatyoucantsay »

dingo_bat wrote: post #52
whatyoucantsay wrote: post #22

It is telling that the defining book of the decade on tech startups— Zero to One was a runaway best-seller in China but didn't even sell 50,000 copies in India. India has, perhaps, relied too heavily on the 1 to N promise of globalisation and, in the process, won in a race to the bottom.

Do you have a source for those numbers?

Ah the joys of HN. Here is a source for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxWpvgTH9oI&t=25m27s

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