Study: Traffic lights should respond to cars, not the other way around • Hacker News Board

Re: Study: Traffic lights should respond to cars, not the other way around

#71

Post by brudgers » Sat, Sep 25, 2010, 4:32 AM UTC

mmt wrote: post #70

brudgers wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most freight does not need to move during peak traffic flow, and of course much of it already does. I'd be curious to hear your speculation about how much cargo is actually move by cars during peak traffic volume.

Don't confuse "freight" with cargo, which I use to include everything that's physical stuff. I don't have a guess as to the magnitude, but, anecdotally, even[1] at peak commute times, I see plenty of dedicated delivery vehicles, as well as people visibly carrying something large and bulky, such as sports equipment[2], changes of clothes, baby stuff[3], and gardening tools. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the vast m…

Cargo isn't inconvenienced by traffic delays.

People are.

Re: Study: Traffic lights should respond to cars, not the other way around

#72

Post by jules » Sat, Sep 25, 2010, 1:21 PM UTC

mmt wrote: post #69

jules wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many car trips include more cargo than can be carried on a bus or on a bike?

Of my single-occupancy trips, 100%. The important distinction is that a car is a "place for my stuff."[1] I carry tools[1], erythritol, and emergency[2] preparedness items, at the very least. My largest car carries enough of a subset of my home that it's even a comfortable place to sleep, if need be. I could certainly do without, but, having done so in the past, it's not worth it. Similarly, carrying a large enough s…

In other words, you have a ton of stuff permanently in your car? It's not stuff that you need to transport from A to B.

Lights and locks are mounted on a bike, and minor repair tools can be as well (it's not necessary; the last time I got a flat tire is 4 years ago using a bike every day). I do nearly all trips on a bike, some with a bag of books & laptop or with a bag of groceries. The number of times I need to carry items that are too large or heavy to transport on a bike is very small. You can carry more with a bike than without a bike...

> I could certainly do without, but, having done so in the past, it's not worth it. Similarly, carrying a large enough subset on a bike, bus, or both, as I've done when I bike commuted, was a constant annoyance.

I don't understand what you were carrying. Can you elaborate on this?

Re: Study: Traffic lights should respond to cars, not the other way around

#73

Post by mmt » Mon, Sep 27, 2010, 2:42 AM UTC

jules wrote: post #72

mmt wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of my single-occupancy trips, 100%. The important distinction is that a car is a "place for my stuff."[1] I carry tools[1], erythritol, and emergency[2] preparedness items, at the very least. My largest car carries enough of a subset of my home that it's even a comfortable place to sleep, if need be. I could certainly do without, but, having done so in the past, it's not worth it. Similarly, carrying a large enough s…

In other words, you have a ton of stuff permanently in your car? It's not stuff that you need to transport from A to B. Lights and locks are mounted on a bike, and minor repair tools can be as well (it's not necessary; the last time I got a flat tire is 4 years ago using a bike every day). I do nearly all trips on a bike, some with a bag of books & laptop or with a bag of groceries. The number of times I need to carr…

In other words, you have a ton of stuff permanently in your car?

Both "permanently" and "ton" are exaggerations, but, aside from that, yes. I value preparedness and independence.

It's not stuff that you need to transport from A to B

I'm not sure what you're trying to assert here, but "to each according to need" echos a bit of socialism. I may not, strictly, need, but I most certainly want. Telling people just to "do without" doesn't, historically, seem to be an effective solution.

I don't understand what you were carrying. Can you elaborate on this?

I think you understand the nature of what I was carrying, but we merely disagree on the necessity or desirability of carrying it and, perhaps, definition, such as where it's carried (paniers, backpack, or mounted[1]).

[1] None of which even remotely approach the privacy and security of an automobile. Is a firearm part of ones disaster preparedness kit? Nothing doing if the kit has to be in a backpack carried with one everywhere.

Re: Study: Traffic lights should respond to cars, not the other way around

#74

Post by mmt » Mon, Sep 27, 2010, 2:45 AM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #71

mmt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't confuse "freight" with cargo, which I use to include everything that's physical stuff. I don't have a guess as to the magnitude, but, anecdotally, even[1] at peak commute times, I see plenty of dedicated delivery vehicles, as well as people visibly carrying something large and bulky, such as sports equipment[2], changes of clothes, baby stuff[3], and gardening tools. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the vast m…

Cargo isn't inconvenienced by traffic delays. People are.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get across here, since the cargo also doesn't drive the vehicles, nor otherwise transport itself. It wouldn't exist without the people.

Re: Study: Traffic lights should respond to cars, not the other way around

#75

Post by brc » Mon, Sep 27, 2010, 6:14 AM UTC

SeanLuke wrote: post #62

brc wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good idea but would really require the car to have interaction with the system, or the system to read and interpret individual cars (to assign the token). I think the advantage with the system shown is they are only measuring throughput rather than keeping tabs on individual cars. Thus I assume it's an easier problem to solve.

Well yes and no. Our proposal wasn't to keep tabs on cars. There's no tracking whatsoever. Lights have no idea of knowing where you have been or who you are: you're just telling them how much pain you've been suffering in the near past. The tokens aren't marked -- they're simply currency so to speak. The approach does require two-way communication between cars and nearby traffic lights. But the approaches that variou…

I understand what you're saying. I think in your design you can keep it essentially one-way without needing anything on the car. This could be done by reading the plate and assigning it to the system, which would then allow tokens to be added/subtracted on the system side only. This does, however, mean that all the traffic lights are hooked up together, but still this is much easier than asking that all cars be modified.

The congestion charging system in London works in a very similar way - it doesn't pretend to know when a car is going to come in or out - just reads the plate and stores it in the database.