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Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

nytimes.com

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Re: Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

#151

Post by ajmurmann »

vkou wrote: post #121
bobthepanda wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that regional concerns (there is not enough housing in the region) do not mesh well with local control. Every locality thinks that everyone else should relieve the burden of housing because they are already "crowded" and new residents mean more money needed for services, which is a hard ask in a place like CA where raising local taxes is fiendishly difficult. If all the localities in a region, or even mo…

> Every locality thinks that everyone else should relieve the burden of housing because they are already "crowded" and new residents mean more money needed for services, which is a hard ask in a place like CA where raising local taxes is fiendishly difficult. The localities have a point. Why should existing residents pay for new infrastructure, to accommodate housing for 10,000 new residents (All because large tech f…

Are you serious?! If your area gets more desirable and built up your property value will more than make up for any perceived tax unfairness. If you end up blocking a lot in Manhattan with your single family home you are a made man!

Re: Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

#152

Post by ajmurmann »

jimrandomh wrote: post #47
tomjakubowski wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the state zoning laws? As far as I know, the state constitution leaves zoning as an issue for the cities/counties to handle. Is that your beef or are there laws on the books I'm ignorant of?

Yes, the problematic zoning laws exist mainly at the city level. The problem is that the decisions about key areas are being made by people who are incentivized to make housing prices go up (because they own property), which they do by severely restricting construction of dense housing.

Even that seems super short sighed though isn't it? If an area turns into the next Manhattan all land owners win big time. I'd love it if it became economically desirable to build a 100 story skyscraper next to my house and someone went ahead and did it!

Re: Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

#153

Post by epistasis »

davmre wrote: post #145
pxeboot wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article claims a per unit cost of almost $800k in SF. Cheaper, prefabricated units could make a significant difference here.

That per-unit development cost is almost certainly including the cost of acquiring the land. Labor in SF is expensive, but not that expensive.

Labor is hugely under supplied in SF. I hear it's really hard to get on a contractor's docket these days without a really big project.

Re: Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

#154

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #143
d1zzy wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't local tech companies offices paying taxes that should take care of that? Unless you mean that tech companies should build private roads and infrastructure which sounds very bad... The way you get money from private parties and use it to build public infrastructure is through taxes :)

Tech company office taxes incentivize local municipalities to open offices , not to build houses. And in fact that's exactly what happens - offices go up, but the people to work there have to commute in from outside the municipality.

Seems the solution is to have mixed use high rises.

Re: Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

#155

Post by bane »

I think it's very interesting how prefab construction seems to pop up from time to time in the media. I grew up in a prefab house, trucked to the property in two halves and bolted together on a poured concrete foundation -- it's incredibly common.

Apartment blocks however, they seem to be locked in a perpetual demonstrator state. One, maybe two prefab buildings will go up, and then no more, eliminating the point of the effort. All kinds of stats will be provided, "built in 30 days", "providing housing for 100 families" and so on. Decades later they'll lay forgotten, or in disrepair, or make for interesting background scenery in dystopian cinema. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakagin_Capsule_Tower

It seems that when populations have to have lots of housing, now and fast, they go more with some kind of semi-prefabbed mobile factory approaches and stamp the buildings out on site. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/wn20...

My guess is that it's a logistics thing. You can more efficiently move 10,000 tons of concrete and rebar to a site packed in sacks and bound in sets, on fewer trucks and in less space, than you can move the same in prefabbed boxes full of mostly empty air. Converting that raw material into the same boxes of air isn't particularly complicated or difficult and can be done at high quality on site anyways, and now you also don't have to pay to have a factory and factory workers.

Re: Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

#156

Post by knuththetruth »

petra wrote: post #44
maerF0x0 wrote: post #37

China has been able to do this for at least 7 yrs now. 30 Story building in 15 days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdpf-MQM9vY

Does anybody know how's the quality of that building ?

Here's a closer look at the building:

https://www.treehugger.com/green-architecture/close-look-bro...

Re: Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

#157

Post by swaggyBoatswain »

bane wrote: post #155

I think it's very interesting how prefab construction seems to pop up from time to time in the media. I grew up in a prefab house, trucked to the property in two halves and bolted together on a poured concrete foundation -- it's incredibly common. Apartment blocks however, they seem to be locked in a perpetual demonstrator state. One, maybe two prefab buildings will go up, and then no more, eliminating the point of t…

Its not just a logistics thing. Prefab components are mostly used for faster RoI by building quicker.

A good example of a real estate holdings company using prefab construction is mcdonalds, wawa, etc. These establishments have the same churn and burn formula. From start to finish, some of these stores can be completed in a little under a month from start of construction to open time. It makes sense for them to spend more money on prefab components. Opening sooner means faster revenue streams. Not only that, if you open in a popular area, rent/land is very high. Where I live the average rent for a store is maybe $3000 a month for a 1500 square foot area but a new chipotle in my town opened up an area with a rent of about $8000.

Your traditional real estate development takes much longer than this though. They pay for cheaper raw materials instead, as its easier to work with for each houses need. They dont have a streamlined sysyem setup for needing prefab components.

Re: Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

#158

Post by jdavis703 »

vkou wrote: post #137
d1zzy wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't local tech companies offices paying taxes that should take care of that? Unless you mean that tech companies should build private roads and infrastructure which sounds very bad... The way you get money from private parties and use it to build public infrastructure is through taxes :)

Because tax rates are the same for old, and new residents/employers, they aren't paying enough to offset the costs they are adding to the system. If you and your 4 roommates rent a 5-bedroom house... And then a sixth person moves in, and demands that everyone spends $20,000 each, to construct a sixth bedroom... The old residents are getting a pretty bad deal. The new resident paid $20,000 to get a room... But the res…

The reason you're getting downvoted is because your facts are wrong, property tax is lower for older residents because Prop 13 limits increases in assessed value. Further new projects are saddled with a wide variety of impact fees. Overall new residents wind up subsdising old residents.

Re: Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

#159

Post by manbash »

bane wrote: post #155

I think it's very interesting how prefab construction seems to pop up from time to time in the media. I grew up in a prefab house, trucked to the property in two halves and bolted together on a poured concrete foundation -- it's incredibly common. Apartment blocks however, they seem to be locked in a perpetual demonstrator state. One, maybe two prefab buildings will go up, and then no more, eliminating the point of t…

I was thinking the same thing: logsitics-wise, it seems more efficient to stack all the material flat in the trailers rather than have a premade box with a lot of unused space (the room's interior).

On the other hand, having the ability to construct everything at the factory helps overcoming issues such as waste of material and lost time due to conatruction error, not to mention the health of construction workers not depending on weather conditions as much.

Re: Developers are manufacturing prefabricated apartment buildings

#160

Post by beamatronic »

ohazi wrote: post #8

I find it hilarious that a CA company is leading the charge in new, efficient, high-quality pre-fab design and construction. These units are going to improve construction quality and lower costs in every state except CA, thanks to our asinine zoning laws.

The whole state? Isn’t there any county that is development friendly?
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