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NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

arstechnica.com

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Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#301

Post by romwell »

unethical_ban wrote: post #11
netsharc wrote: post #8

Dear Elon, want to start a website that rates how fake-newsy government-produced accident reports are? /S "FDA said my farm is producing salmonella-infected chicken. Downvote their report on this URL!"

Without commenting on the rest of the issues with Musk/Tesla, his tweet about a news verification agency was a joke. Verifiably. It was nicknamed Pravda, and a corporation related to his tweet was registered to Musk on Oct 17 2017, the anniversery of the October Revolution.

> a corporation related to his tweet was registered to Musk on Oct 17 2017, the anniversery of the October Revolution.

FYI, the October Revolution anniversary is Nov 7th (Oct 25th using the old calendar).

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#303

Post by buvanshak »

FireBeyond wrote: post #212
Animats wrote: post #42

NTSB: • At 8 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla was following a lead vehicle and was traveling about 65 mph. • At 7 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla began a left steering movement while following a lead vehicle. • At 4 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla was no longer following a lead vehicle. • At 3 seconds prior to the crash and up to the time of impact with the crash attenuator, the Tesla’s speed increas…

Meanwhile, Tesla is busy putting out press releases saying "We believe the driver was inattentive, and the car was warning him to put his hands on the wheel." I am utterly, completely lacking in surprise that they didn't provide the relevant context, "... fifteen minutes prior." This just looks... really bad for Tesla. It's more important to them to protect their poor software than drivers.

If a company is this blatantly evil while still in a growing phase, I can only imagine what they would do once they are a established major player...

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#304

Post by mcguire »

crote wrote: post #148
panopticon wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, are you not in the U.S.? These types of lane dividers are incredibly common throughout the country. Note that I'm not defending the safety of them; I'm just surprised to see someone call them out as a hazard as they're such a common sight.

Dutch citizen here, I have never seen something like this. To compare, here's a similar situation in The Netherlands: https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.0928662,5.1734685,3a,75y,281.... Points of interest: - big solid white arrow, line-fade is nearly impossible - white-green sign indicating that the road is splitting - big shoulder in the continuation of the division - loads of grass instead of immediately using a metal…

That's an interesting (and amusing) picture, but I'd expect many more incidents of a "gently rising metal barrier" causing a vehicle to roll over.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#305

Post by Fricken »

dekhn wrote: post #248
Animats wrote: post #42

NTSB: • At 8 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla was following a lead vehicle and was traveling about 65 mph. • At 7 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla began a left steering movement while following a lead vehicle. • At 4 seconds prior to the crash, the Tesla was no longer following a lead vehicle. • At 3 seconds prior to the crash and up to the time of impact with the crash attenuator, the Tesla’s speed increas…

Although I don't work in self-driving cars, I do know a fair amount of ML and AI, and I have to be honest: if my bosses asked me to build this system, I would have immediately pointed out several problems and said that this is not a shippable product. I expect any system that lets me drive with my hands off the wheels for periods of time deals with stationary obstacles. What is being described here, if it's correct,…

Tesla's autopilot team is onto (if I recall) it's 5th director since the unveiling of hw2 in late 2016. The first director of Autopilot, Sterling Anderson, was dumbstruck when Musk went public with delusional claims about what autopilot would be capable of, and quit. A slew of top engineers left with him, or not long afterwards. Tesla, showing their true colours, followed up with a meritless lawsuit accusing Sterling of stealing trade secrets.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#306

Post by userbinator »

This just reconfirms my belief about Tesla's "autopilot" --- most of the time it behaves like an OK driver, but occasionally makes a fatal mistake if you don't pay attention and correct it. In other words, you have to be more attentive to drive safely with it than without, since a normal car (with suspension and tires in good condition, on a flat road surface) will not decide to change direction unless explicitly directed to --- it will continue in a straight line even if you take your hands off the wheel.

Given that, the value of autopilot seems dubious...

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#307

Post by AmVess »

ekianjo wrote: post #256
amelius wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what is the right way to handle these updates? Require updates to be sent to a government entity, which will test the code for X miles of real traffic, and then releases the updates to the cars. Of course, costs of this are to be paid by the company.

Yeah, because we know governments are really good at giving certifications and doing tests that mean sonething. Lets put every design decision in the hand of governements then! or better, nationalize car companies! Problem solved?

Flying in an airplane is safe because of direct intervention by the government.

Cars have been made safe for us also by direct intervention by the government. From important things like mandating seat belts and crash safety to smaller things like forcing the recall of tens of millions of faulty air bag inflators.

These are just a few of the many things Uncle Sam has done to make things safer for us.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#308

Post by Fricken »

uncoder0 wrote: post #279
codedokode wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I think a LIDAR could see the obstacle in this case.

You are correct. Built an autonomous car in 2007 that wouldn't hit that wall.

Were you using the Velodyne 64s?

Cruise, who uses the 32 laser velodynes avoids highway/freeway speeds because their lidar doesn't have the range to reliably detect obstacles at that distance.

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#309

Post by wpdev_63 »

gscott wrote: post #302

Wait until the Government can just remotely drive your car into a barrier, it will be great!

Why would the government ever do that?/s

Did you hear what happened to the whistle blower that leaked vault 7? Apparently he had a bunch of child porn on his computer[0]. Crazy huh?

[0]:https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/ex-cia-employee-...

Re: NTSB: Autopilot steered Tesla car toward traffic barrier before deadly crash

#310

Post by mcguire »

Symbiote wrote: post #219
crote wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dutch citizen here, I have never seen something like this. To compare, here's a similar situation in The Netherlands: https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.0928662,5.1734685,3a,75y,281.... Points of interest: - big solid white arrow, line-fade is nearly impossible - white-green sign indicating that the road is splitting - big shoulder in the continuation of the division - loads of grass instead of immediately using a metal…

I've tried to find something similar in an urban area in Britain, here's one in Birmingham: https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.4901761,-1.889549,3a,69.6y,5.... That fence wouldn't be fun to drive into at full speed, and the lane markings are worn, but it's still far less awful than a concrete wall.

At highway speeds, if that "fence" is strong enough to prevent vehicles from falling from the raised left lane into the lower right lanes, then it would seem likely to cut a car in two. I think I'd prefer the crash attenuator.
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