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Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

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141–150 of 229 posts

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#141

I drink about a gallon of caffeinated drinks a day, sometimes more. Am I the only one? I don't have problems sleeping, headaches, or with fatigue. I look forward to the jitters; it actually cheers me up to know that soon I'll be so intense.

Your not the only one. I drink coffee and never had sleep problems even when I drink before going to bed. I don't know why.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#142

Club mate is the drink of choice in the start up community in Berlin. I've made the mistake of drinking that in the evening a couple of times and regretted that at 4am by being wide awake and unproductive the next day. If you are not familiar, mate tea which this is based on contains a form of caffeine that is particularly potent. It's like drinking multiple espresso shots. Don't drink this if you have blood pressure…

Shout-out to Yerba Mate tea (which this drink is based on) which I got introduced to on a recent trip to Argentina and now enjoy at home now and then, thanks to Amazon (I got the special cup and special metal filter straw and everything!). It's been called a "supertea" due to its various health benefits in addition to being a CNS stimulant. I'd recommend trying it. I add a little honey, but sweetener is up to you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerba_mate

For reference I got this mate mug https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GJXBR94/ref=oh_aui_se... and these straws ("bombillas") https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M1N9U23/ref=oh_aui_se... (because the one that came with the mug let a bit too much tea particulate through) and am very happy with that combo.

Here's a good video on the "ritual" of making it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BW1-pE4XaE

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#144

Genetics play an important factor. CYP1A2, one of the enzymes that metabolizes caffeine, varies by as much as 40x between individuals. In those with a high level of the enzyme, caffeine is metabolized quickly, so they can drink coffee in the afternoon and still fall asleep. They are less likely to get anxiety from caffeine, and do not suffer from a higher risk of heart attacks with coffee consumption. In contrast, a…

My dad (in Italy) drinks his last espresso after dinner, at ~9pm, every night, and soundly falls asleep by 10:30am.

Perhaps he has a high level of CYP1A2? I am wondering if there's a cheap but effective method of measuring it.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#145
post #23

Caffeine is also linked to panic attacks, anxiety and sleep loss (and loss of quality of sleep), I would recommend staying off caffeine all together, having tried both, I by far more like working in the calmness of not having caffeine circulating in my body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine-induced_anxiety_disor...

Counter-point: I once quit coffee altogether, weening myself off with tea at first. After about 3 months of total caffeine "sobriety" I hated it. I found I enjoyed myself more and was more productive with some caffeine rather than none. It did help me cut back (I went from ~8 cups a day to ~2-4). I think the level I'm at now -- still ~2-4 cups -- is perfect. I find I'm productive and still sleep well. Note: 2-4 cups…

Same. I was off all caffeine for a month and I much preferred going back. However I stick to tea now and save coffee for emergencies.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#146
post #45

How about, you know, sleeping? Working in a startup isn't being parachuted behind the enemy lines where your life depends on staying alert. Go home, you'll work better tomorrow.

Okay c'mon, this is such a reductive response. Sometimes you have a string of sleepless nights for reasons unrelated to work. Sometimes you have young infants who are waking up to feed every hour on the hour.

Yeah if possible I will always choose a full, restful night's sleep. But if I can't for some reason, it's nice to know there are ways to mitigate this temporarily.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High- and medium grade green tea (especially the Japanese varieties) have significant amounts of L-theanine, which has its own effects and synergies with caffeine. For me, the same amount of caffeine will have me anxious and give me tunnel-vision if I get it from coffee while more euphoric and peppy if from green tea.

What should we be feeling with L-theanine? I never found it affected me.

With good green tea that has lots of it (shaded tea, but doesn't need to be gyokuro, Sencha Momiji is my favorite, cold brewed over night, then strained in a french press), I usually feel a slow but steady rise in wakefulness and around the time where I would start to get jittery (say, like when drinking a few too many cokes), it transitions over to an incredible calm mixed with a feeling of... wideness. Like your FOV is actually expanded by a few degrees, on many levels. Close your eyes and it feels like being at peace in a kind of Zen state. But... with a little buzz, very much an eager, productive peace where things line up and you can approach them.

It's probably different for different people, but I can highly recommend trying to "get some good stuff" to see whether it can do the same for you. I wouldn't want to miss it.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#148

Anecdotally, water and sugar directly affect my alertness while using caffeine. If I don't have enough water I get headaches and can't think straight. If my blood sugar is low due to not eating enough, or eating too much sugar and "crashing" then I might as well be asleep, even though I can't from the caffeine. I may have missed it, but I don't see where they account for the diet of their test subjects.

Many people are dehydrated and don't know it. First thing in the morning, I drink a bunch of water. Diet soda, tea, juice, coffee doesn't do the trick - it has to be water.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#149
post #23

Caffeine is also linked to panic attacks, anxiety and sleep loss (and loss of quality of sleep), I would recommend staying off caffeine all together, having tried both, I by far more like working in the calmness of not having caffeine circulating in my body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine-induced_anxiety_disor...

Reading this paper, I got a similar sense that all of this was suboptimal when compared to working towards and maintaining a healthy sleep cycle. When maintaining a healthy sleep cycle, there is no drop off in performance throughout the day, right? Or if there is, it's nothing nearly as bad as the drop off shown in even the best dosing strategies shown here, right? This paper makes the assumption that getting enough sleep simply isn't an option, but for many of us, that's not true. We choose to sleep poorly, and all of this is us trying to minimize the consequences of that poor choice.

I don't know a lot about this topic, so feel free to correct me.

Re: Caffeine dosing strategies to optimize alertness during sleep loss

#150
post #23

Caffeine is also linked to panic attacks, anxiety and sleep loss (and loss of quality of sleep), I would recommend staying off caffeine all together, having tried both, I by far more like working in the calmness of not having caffeine circulating in my body. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine-induced_anxiety_disor...

Counter-point: I once quit coffee altogether, weening myself off with tea at first. After about 3 months of total caffeine "sobriety" I hated it. I found I enjoyed myself more and was more productive with some caffeine rather than none. It did help me cut back (I went from ~8 cups a day to ~2-4). I think the level I'm at now -- still ~2-4 cups -- is perfect. I find I'm productive and still sleep well. Note: 2-4 cups…

I was life-long anti-caffeine, except the occasional soda. Then I started drinking more and more of it as I drank more and more soda.

Eventually, I realized the soda was doing bad things to my system and got off it. I didn't drink coffee or tea, so that mean almost zero caffeine as well.

Lately, I started drinking chai twice per day at work. I've found that I'm a lot more productive and active, both at work and at home, though I do tend to get really sluggish a couple hours before bed.

I don't know drinking so much caffeine permanently altered my metabolism/body chemistry so that I need caffeine, or if it was an inevitable consequence of aging. It's weird to find that I now "need" caffeine just like everyone around me, when I definitely didn't just 10 years ago.

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