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The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

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Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#241

Post by vkatluri »

eriken wrote: post #223
matz1 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A candidate who want to get better offer is a red flag ?

You can always negotiate, but if you accept an offer I expect you to commit.

Just curious, commit for how long? I have been in situations before, where I have accepted an offer, started a job and was informed 3 months later that the company mis-calculated the budgets/revenues and have to let go a bunch of people. Guess who gets let go first? The people who started the latest.

Doesn't this go both ways? In this day and age in America, there's no loyalty going in either direction, employer or employee.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#242

Post by osrec »

mritun wrote: post #219
osrec wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about that... I worked at an investment bank in London, and had a tech team support our quant desk from India. I signed off on the costs and they were ranging from 10 lakhs to 35 lakhs per person. I think that's comparable, or even better than MS or Amazon for the city they were in (Pune).

35 lacks you mentioned is a good starting salary for a person at Amazon or MS. 10L is not, even in Pune.

35L is about 40k GBP - the average cost of a JS developer in many parts of the UK. Are you saying that's a starting salary for a developer in India - because in that case, why outsource?!

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#243

Post by sonnyblarney »

osrec wrote: post #129

IT miracle? More like IT sham. The quality of engineers in India is sketchy at best in my experience. Lack of understanding and innovation is rife across the board, but they seem to be great at selling their service. This may be because of the "yes" culture other comments have mentioned, but I would guess it's got a lot to do with a massively undercut price. It is, however, a false economy, because you often end up i…

It's not a scam, you just have to know what you are buying.

For internal Enterprise apps, for testing, for some other things - you need just basic developers who can understand problems and solve them.

Also - there's a lot of basic IT work and basic dev-ops-ish stuff that can be done.

So yes, if you try to build a hot new thing, for your hot new startup using Infosys, you're going to fail.

But if you have large company, and need some well-defined system for reviewing customer service inquiries ... well, if you manage the project correctly, Infosys might be a good choice. In fact, it may be your only choice because hiring devs in North America is very expensive.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#244

Post by tome »

commandlinefan wrote: post #234
osrec wrote: post #129

IT miracle? More like IT sham. The quality of engineers in India is sketchy at best in my experience. Lack of understanding and innovation is rife across the board, but they seem to be great at selling their service. This may be because of the "yes" culture other comments have mentioned, but I would guess it's got a lot to do with a massively undercut price. It is, however, a false economy, because you often end up i…

> The quality of engineers in India is sketchy at best In a little over 25 years of experience, I've observed that the most competent developers I've worked with have been Indian. The most incompetent developers I've worked with have also been Indian. That doesn't say anything about Indians as a population, it's just that 90% of my coworkers, for the past two and a half decades, have been Indian.

Were they in India? That's specifically what osrec said. Nothing about Indians.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#245

Post by geodel »

billfruit wrote: post #189
jeswin wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that we manufacture very little, and a disproportionate part of our GDP is services. If you take away services, there's not a lot of money coming into our economy. The size of our economy is tiny in comparison (smaller than UK's) and per-capita income is one of the lowest - there's not a lot of headroom to grow for companies targeting the domestic market. The point I'm making is, until manufacturing an…

But in todays world, is not manufacturing anything an issue? Does UK manufacture even a safety pin, and they seem to be doing ok, by and by, focusing on services, financial businesses, licencing and IP etc..

UK does not have 1.2 billion human population which is not particularly skilled, educated, wealthy.

Concentrating on only one aspect can give answers which we like. Different societies e.g. America, Japan, Russia, UK or China have developed in different ways. I think of 3 basic factors: sophisticated population, lot of land, powerful political system. At least one or combination of more than one is required for rapid development.

India has none of these so it will be painful, long and slow path to development.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#246

Post by badpun »

sumedh wrote: post #159
chris_wot wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone needs to help reduce that market cap. They really are the pits.

You can always start your own company and compete with TCS :)

The business model of such companies is to bullshit and sometimes bribe the execs into a multimillion contract and then deliver crap (they often have threaten going to court to get paid for their non-services). Not everyone is willing to do that.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#247

Post by osrec »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #243
osrec wrote: post #129

IT miracle? More like IT sham. The quality of engineers in India is sketchy at best in my experience. Lack of understanding and innovation is rife across the board, but they seem to be great at selling their service. This may be because of the "yes" culture other comments have mentioned, but I would guess it's got a lot to do with a massively undercut price. It is, however, a false economy, because you often end up i…

It's not a scam, you just have to know what you are buying. For internal Enterprise apps, for testing, for some other things - you need just basic developers who can understand problems and solve them. Also - there's a lot of basic IT work and basic dev-ops-ish stuff that can be done. So yes, if you try to build a hot new thing, for your hot new startup using Infosys, you're going to fail. But if you have large compa…

I'm not convinced. I've seen some terrible test cases written by Infosys engineers. Just a complete lack of imagination with respect to the failure modes of a piece of software. Remember that India is not the "only choice"; Eastern Europe is waiting in the wings at a similar price point, better quality, and better timezone overlap.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#248

Post by sctb »

onecooldev24 wrote: post #186
chris_wot wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point was that plumbers don't get paid $100k for any jobs, but in fact many plumbers do in fact get paid $100k+ for sufficiently large jobs. It's your analogy, not mine!

If you don't understand the broad idea of my statement, then sorry to say this my friend, you are a fool.

Would you please stop this, read the guidelines, and post only civilly and substantively? We ban accounts that won't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#249

Post by sonnyblarney »

osrec wrote: post #247
sonnyblarney wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a scam, you just have to know what you are buying. For internal Enterprise apps, for testing, for some other things - you need just basic developers who can understand problems and solve them. Also - there's a lot of basic IT work and basic dev-ops-ish stuff that can be done. So yes, if you try to build a hot new thing, for your hot new startup using Infosys, you're going to fail. But if you have large compa…

I'm not convinced. I've seen some terrible test cases written by Infosys engineers. Just a complete lack of imagination with respect to the failure modes of a piece of software. Remember that India is not the "only choice"; Eastern Europe is waiting in the wings at a similar price point, better quality, and better timezone overlap.

" Just a complete lack of imagination with respect to the failure modes of a piece of software." you get what you pay for to some extent.

E. Europe is considerably more expensive than India.

Re: The end of India’s ‘IT miracle’?

#250

Post by osrec »

tome wrote: post #244
commandlinefan wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The quality of engineers in India is sketchy at best In a little over 25 years of experience, I've observed that the most competent developers I've worked with have been Indian. The most incompetent developers I've worked with have also been Indian. That doesn't say anything about Indians as a population, it's just that 90% of my coworkers, for the past two and a half decades, have been Indian.

Were they in India? That's specifically what osrec said. Nothing about Indians.

Indeed. I too am (British) Indian ;)
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