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Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

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Re: Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

#71

Post by dnomad »

dmurray wrote: post #62
mrep wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That immutability is terrible feature. Type one letter wrong on your wallet address and your money is gone forever. I myself have experienced something similar when a bank teller provided me with a routing number from a chase bank in a different state then I originally set up my account. Thus, my entire direct deposit pay for a month of $6,000 went to an account set for a chase routing number in a different state. Fo…

You have something like a 1 in 4 billion chance of entering a valid bitcoin address if you made a typo, whether it's "one letter wrong" or some other combination of changes (there's a 32 bit checksum). So actually this never happens.

This sort of thing happens all the time. Hackers routinely attack web sites and change wallet addresses [1]. They setup fake Twitter accounts, fake web sites, muck up exchanges with fake listings, and in some cases even hold fake investor meetings. By some estimates hackers have stolen $400m from ICOs [2]. All of this nonsense is possible precisely because crypto transactions are irreversible so the currency users have absolutely no recourse.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/17/coindash-website-hacked-7-mi...

[2] http://fortune.com/2018/01/22/ico-2018-coin-bitcoin-hack/

Re: Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

#72

Post by anonymouz »

hapnin wrote: post #33
aphextron wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>”It's not a good store of value over the long haul” Well sure, but no one is storing their wealth in USD. You use it to purchase assets. What store of value can you purchase with BTC without first converting to USD? >”Binance made more money than Deutsche Bank last year. They funded growth with an ICO.” Concentrated more wealth, you mean. What, exactly, did they contribute to the economy? At the very least, banks pr…

No one stores their wealth in USD because it's not a good store of value. > What store of value can you purchase with BTC without first converting to USD? Switching out to gold from BTC is pretty painless.

Bitcoin has crazy volatility compared to gold and even USD. Sure, you can use it for speculation, but no one in their right mind uses Bitcoin as a store of value.

People just hope that someone else will use it as a sure if value, so that the price rises and they get rich off it. Ie, speculation.

Re: Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

#73

Post by [deleted] »

anonymouz wrote: post #72
hapnin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one stores their wealth in USD because it's not a good store of value. > What store of value can you purchase with BTC without first converting to USD? Switching out to gold from BTC is pretty painless.

Bitcoin has crazy volatility compared to gold and even USD. Sure, you can use it for speculation, but no one in their right mind uses Bitcoin as a store of value. People just hope that someone else will use it as a sure if value, so that the price rises and they get rich off it. Ie, speculation.

[deleted]

Re: Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

#74

Post by pjc50 »

gomox wrote: post #7
aphextron wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we can go back to building valuable companies Like what? >with a whole new way of funding them. What's wrong with US Dollars?

Crypto securities don't replace the US dollars. They replace the shares you're buying when you invest in a company. You are welcome to use US dollars for that if you want. Chances are depending where the companies are based, getting the money in USD to them could be tricky though. What company people are going to build is anyone's guess, but mine is that there's going to be a lot of them. Silicon Valley is only but a…

Shares provide ownership and voting. Tokens provide .. no legal guarantees of anything at all?

Re: Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

#75

Post by dmurray »

dnomad wrote: post #71
dmurray wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have something like a 1 in 4 billion chance of entering a valid bitcoin address if you made a typo, whether it's "one letter wrong" or some other combination of changes (there's a 32 bit checksum). So actually this never happens.

This sort of thing happens all the time. Hackers routinely attack web sites and change wallet addresses [1]. They setup fake Twitter accounts, fake web sites, muck up exchanges with fake listings, and in some cases even hold fake investor meetings. By some estimates hackers have stolen $400m from ICOs [2]. All of this nonsense is possible precisely because crypto transactions are irreversible so the currency users ha…

Yes, cryptocurrency institutions get hacked and their customers lose money (more often proportionately, it seems, than their dollar equivalents). I was replying, however, to the ill-founded claim that people lose money by mistyping a single wrong letter in a bitcoin address.

Re: Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

#76

Post by drexlspivey »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #36
pwaai wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need fiat banking to cash in and cash out. You are at the mercy of the fiat banking stakeholders. You can create any crypto currency but if nobody can buy it with cash or sell it for cash, it's worthless. SEC has already announced they are looking at Ethereum as security, insiders have already sold according to rumours, because they are being targeted by the SEC- Turns out if you sell tokens with expectation of i…

> SEC has already announced they are looking at Ethereum as security, Got a cite?

Yes I don’t think that’s accurate. The SEC chairman in a cnbc interview the other day said that bitcoin will count as a currency while ICO tokens as assets. When asked explicitly about ethereum he said roughly that they haven’t decided yet.

Re: Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

#77

Post by Nursie »

gomox wrote: post #13
aphextron wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>”It's not a good store of value over the long haul” Well sure, but no one is storing their wealth in USD. You use it to purchase assets. What store of value can you purchase with BTC without first converting to USD? >”Binance made more money than Deutsche Bank last year. They funded growth with an ICO.” Concentrated more wealth, you mean. What, exactly, did they contribute to the economy? At the very least, banks pr…

Soon enough, potentially, tokenized securities that represent shares of anything you can think of.

>> Soon enough, potentially, tokenized securities that represent shares of anything you can think of.

Do you think they will actually represent shares?

As far as I can tell, all current ICOs have not represented any ownership or share of anything, other than the token itself.

Re: Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

#78

Post by bjl »

gomox wrote: post #7
aphextron wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we can go back to building valuable companies Like what? >with a whole new way of funding them. What's wrong with US Dollars?

Crypto securities don't replace the US dollars. They replace the shares you're buying when you invest in a company. You are welcome to use US dollars for that if you want. Chances are depending where the companies are based, getting the money in USD to them could be tricky though. What company people are going to build is anyone's guess, but mine is that there's going to be a lot of them. Silicon Valley is only but a…

Explain how crypto-tokens are going to enable the vast amount of rights shareholders get in a company. Can crypto holders vote on the direction of the company, compel changes in the board, etc? If not, there's no reason for them to exist, because those rights are the entire reason one buys stock.

Re: Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

#79

Post by eganist »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39
thisisit wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Slight off-topic looking at your profile, it says "Trade private equity stakes in technology companies". Curious how does that work?

What is your e-mail address?

Reachable via any of my accounts tied to keybase if that helps (including the email tied to my key). Thanks for accommodating the widening list!

Re: Our path to listing SEC-regulated crypto securities

#80

Post by Radle »

hapnin wrote: post #8
aphextron wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we can go back to building valuable companies Like what? >with a whole new way of funding them. What's wrong with US Dollars?

Binance made more money than Deutsche Bank last year. They funded growth with an ICO. > What's wrong with US Dollars? It's not a good store of value over the long haul: https://visual.ly/community/infographic/economy/purchasing-p...

I also made more money than Deutsche Bank last year.

"Deutsche Bank reports pre-tax profit of 1.3 billion euros and net loss of 0.5 billion euros for 2017"

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