Using Countdown Clock Data to Understand the New York City Subway • Hacker News Board

Re: Using Countdown Clock Data to Understand the New York City Subway

#61

Post by Alex3917 » Wed, Jun 06, 2018, 11:53 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #56

tomjakubowski wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total attendance, NYPL system in FY2016: 13,867,000 (2M library card holders, 729,000 active) Total attendance, New York Mets in MLB 2016: 2,460,000 Total attendance, New York Giants in NFL 2016: 630,312 "Nobody" uses libraries, indeed. http://council.nyc.gov/budget/wp-content/uploads/sites/54/20...

2M library card holders, which represents about 10% of the number of people who are eligible for a library card, and fewer than 1/2 checked out a book. So 5% of the total eligible population used one. Don't get me wrong, I love libraries and I go every week with the kids, but I think OP is right -- few people actually use the library.

> So 5% of the total eligible population used one.

That's not a good metric to use because everyone who lives or works in New York State is eligible to join, but for most people it only really makes sense to join if you live in Manhattan, Brooklyn, or Staten Island. Otherwise you'd just join your local library.

So really ~60% of all residents (i.e. including young children) have a library card, and the overwhelming majority take advantage of library services and events.

Re: Using Countdown Clock Data to Understand the New York City Subway

#62

Post by T-hawk » Thu, Jun 07, 2018, 12:53 AM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #57

jwr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think we'll see a GoA 4 tube for many years Perhaps I'm missing something, but I used to ride a fully automatic (e.g. there was no driver, not even a cabin for one) subway line in Lyon back in 1994/1995.

I think they're talking very specifically about the London Underground. It's very easy to build automated trains when they're brand new, but much harder to do so on legacy lines.

Including union demands for operators to exist and get paid as part of that legacy.

Re: Using Countdown Clock Data to Understand the New York City Subway

#63

Post by ggm » Thu, Jun 07, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

anthonybsd wrote: post #2

>The L train is also the only line that uses modern >communications-based train control (CBTC), which allows >trains to operate in a more automated fashion. It's not "more automated fashion", it's fully automated, LIDAR and all - they are fully autonomous. L trains have operators because of unions throwing a fit and most of the times they sit there twiddling their thumbs.

Dismissing Unions assumes you really know all the reasons Unions might object. You go directly to 'taaaking our jooooobs' without even reflecting once on the other concerns.

BTW, if people don't have jobs what is the economy? we were told a few years back that with the decline of manufacturing the jobs were in the service industry. Service, like y'know, staff on the underground?

Maybe, the path out here is to keep them working and paid, but have them do other things?

Unions are not bad. Sloppy critique of unions because 'story' is bad.

Re: Using Countdown Clock Data to Understand the New York City Subway

#64

Post by Symbiote » Thu, Jun 07, 2018, 8:34 PM UTC

gsnedders wrote: post #26

Symbiote wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A system so safe, that almost all of the accidents in the last 50 years say "no serious injuries" or even "no injuries". One driver was killed in 1968, another in 1984, someone broken a leg in 2003, and a passenger in 2004 dragged along a platform. (The accident in 1975 was with a mainline rail train, not a metro train, I'm not sure why it's on the list.)

The line to Moorgate was owned by the Metropolitan Railway, which became part of the amalgamated London Passenger Transport Board, using the Underground brand, and branded as part of the Northern Line. The line up to Holloway Junction (where it joins the ECML) was owned and maintained as part of the Underground, operated by Underground drivers and Underground owned trains, and it was only transferred near the end of…

> Perhaps most tellingly, it was London Underground 1938 Stock involved in the 1975 crash.

Thanks, that's something I'd not realized. I'd assumed the situation was more like the current London Overground system.

Re: Using Countdown Clock Data to Understand the New York City Subway

#65

Post by Symbiote » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 7:19 AM UTC

eumoria wrote: post #60

innocenat wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person living in Osaka, Japan right now, I always find it funny reading people comment on NYC Subway. Not your specifically, but in general. In Osaka, Hankyu Railway (granted, a commuter train operator, but most if not all commuter trains service in Japan runs like subway) still runs multiple 3300 series, manufactured in 1969. They (the 3300's) actually also run into the Osaka Metro system, and you cannot really…

Yea I figured this may be mentioned, it's the same in the UK they were running very old train stock of the same vintage until (I think) this year? I know it's also not the only problem but both the Japanese and UK cartridges aren't complete shit and falling apart. Three times in the past 2 years (since I moved to the G line) the train had to be evacuated because the brakes locked on a car and someone smelled the awfu…

London's oldest trains are from 1972, the 1969 stuff was withdrawn by the end of 2014.

But England runs older trains, and this has recently been newsworthy [1]. I think the underlying problem is the electrification of two lines has been delayed, so the newer diesel trains used on those lines are still needed, and can't (as originally planned) be used to increase capacity on the other route.

It also shows that London's transport, which is directly managed by a government body, works far better than the privatized mess in the rest of the country.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_rolling_sto...

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jun/03/unions-criti...

Re: Using Countdown Clock Data to Understand the New York City Subway

#66

Post by Piskvorrr » Fri, Jun 08, 2018, 9:44 PM UTC

mseebach wrote: post #52

Symbiote wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A system so safe, that almost all of the accidents in the last 50 years say "no serious injuries" or even "no injuries". One driver was killed in 1968, another in 1984, someone broken a leg in 2003, and a passenger in 2004 dragged along a platform. (The accident in 1975 was with a mainline rail train, not a metro train, I'm not sure why it's on the list.)

More pertinently, a good deal of these seems to to driver error , specifically missing signals. If there's anything automatic drivers are good at, it's not missing signals.

That's a fair point, noted. Better signalling and especially automated signalling has made rail travel orders of magnitude safer.