Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it is a US company that does business in Europe, but is not established in the Union, you are correct. If the company is established in the Union, then GDPR applies to all personal data processing it does. See Article 3(1): "This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data in the context of the activities of an establishment of a controller or a processor in the Union, regardless of whether the processin…
What does "established in the union" even mean?
Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
281–290 of 298 posts
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed, it’s not likely to be enforced. Note that you cannot sue anyone over the GDPR, however. That is a fundamental misunderstanding that I keep seeing repeated - the GDPR only gives people the right to report companies to the relevant authority. The authority can then investigate and issue a warning/fine as they see fit.
> Note that you cannot sue anyone over the GDPR, however. That is a fundamental misunderstanding that I keep seeing repeated - the GDPR only gives people the right to report companies to the relevant authority It also gives the right to to sue. See Articles 79, 80, and 82. There's a nice summary here: https://privacylawblog.fieldfisher.com/2016/getting-to-know-...
Here's an interesting law review article examining these developments: The Arc and Architecture of Private Enforcement Regimes in the United States and Europe: A View Across the Atlantic, https://law.unh.edu/sites/default/files/media/rathod_-_final...
Personally in terms of public policy I prefer private action, but maybe that's because I'm American. Private actions are usually predicated on actual, individualized harm, whereas regulators can strong-arm companies without any evidence of actual harm. Theoretically it makes for a better business environment, especially for startups, legal anxiety about nuisance lawsuits notwithstanding[1]. But private action doesn't scale; if you don't permit aggregation of claims (i.e. class actions) then private enforcement can't redress systemic behaviors.[2]
[1] The anxiety is invariably overblown. I think it's because most people's eyes will glaze over when hearing stories about regulator enforcement actions. But stories about slip & fall lawsuits are both legion and relatable; like with terrorism, people develop a false sense of the legal risks and costs.
[2] I mean, it could work without aggregation if you changed the rules of litigation to really streamline individual claims, such as by shifting the burden of proof onto the defendant for certain categories of behavior. Then it would sort of act like a dynamic tax that responded to business practices. Keep your customers happy and you pay a minimum, baseline tax--the cost-of-doing-business that is whatever amount you want to pay out for fraudulent claims, not unlike what businesses already do with accounts payable and shrinkage. Do something that might upset your customers and you'll have to face an onslaught of cases that either require a quick payout or costly litigation. I imagine such a regime would look much like that with class actions, with specialized law firms that identify and aggregate plaintiffs to benefit from economies of scale, and take a cut of the proceeds. But it would still make it much easier for people to prosecute small claims themselves.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about create a purchasers’ union and use your collective purchasing power to influence the behavior of companies, the way that companies use their power to control consumers. I don’t have any problem with your union; in fact, I might join such a union. Just don’t force everyone to join it, which is what happens when laws are made for everyone as a result of the bad decisions of some. I don’t know if such a union…
First of all, I don't think it would be practically feasible to do this in the real world. As the old saying goes, if person A finds a way to get 100 million dollars by making 100 million people lose $1 each, he would have every incentive and tool to get that money and no one would have any incentive to stop him. Imagine the enormous costs of forming a purchasers' union, both direct and transaction costs. You can nev…
Pertaining a purchasers’ union, I don’t mean something that would bureaucratically bogged down purchasing. I mean something like a club where you only purchase from those companies approved by the club, and everybody in the club gets to vote on which companies will be allowed to be purchased from.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#284Can we make a law that all data collected by devices that I bought belongs to me? Yes, that includes everything the websites I visit send back to the mothership.
There's no real justification for anyone having that right. The device manufacturer/website owner/etc does the work of creating the data, yet you think it's yours?
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I mean all data, not just PII. If a Nest measures the temperature in my house I want to own those data points.
Then, and I'm being serious: don't put a Nest in your house. You know what these things are, and you know what the company who makes them does.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, as I understand it, that is correct. When you are in a country that is a member of the EU, your data held by companies is subject to the GDPR.
Doesn't this mean that even a US company which explicitly verifies it only works with US citizens must still IP block all of Europe to comply? EDIT: A nasty surprise that might be, too, if it turns out there was important data via that service that you wanted to access abroad but couldn't.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not going to get sucked into this. If you have to ask, it implies you already believe that all of the dozens of articles published daily have total merit, in which case nothing I'm going to say will convince you because your position is pretty well set in concrete.
If I'm not already convinced Tesla is being unfairly attacked, I'm not amenable to changing my position? I find that line hard to understand.
Which begs the question, why do I comment in these discussions at all? I do not know.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, as I understand it, that is correct. When you are in a country that is a member of the EU, your data held by companies is subject to the GDPR.
Doesn't this mean that even a US company which explicitly verifies it only works with US citizens must still IP block all of Europe to comply? EDIT: A nasty surprise that might be, too, if it turns out there was important data via that service that you wanted to access abroad but couldn't.
It could comply the normal way.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#289Can we make a law that all data collected by devices that I bought belongs to me? Yes, that includes everything the websites I visit send back to the mothership.
So, if you have a DSLR camera on a tripod set to a timer, and you do not actually take the picture, you have no claim to copyright of that image, even though the device you owned created it?
But the post you're replying to wasn't about copyright at all.
Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't this mean that even a US company which explicitly verifies it only works with US citizens must still IP block all of Europe to comply? EDIT: A nasty surprise that might be, too, if it turns out there was important data via that service that you wanted to access abroad but couldn't.
Only if they actually have a legal presence in the EU. If they are a US company that has no legal entity established in the EU, the laws of the EU have no effect on them.