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Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

consumeraffairs.com

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Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#61

Post by vinceguidry »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #51
vinceguidry wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's a new company, either they're holding themselves to a higher standard than the establishment or they aren't. If they're not then I'm going with the establishment. I can overlook a great great great many things in service of the cause of disrupting the auto industry. But this? Asking me to take personal responsibility with no legal recourse? This is the line they can't ask me to cross. If this is fake news, fi…

That’s for each consumer to decide of course. I bought my Model S fully knowing what I was getting into. I consider them holding themselves to a higher standard, but as in politics, you can’t find someone who agrees with you 100% in office. Have to compromise, and this isn’t a hill I care to die on. As I stated above, it’s a public policy issue, not Tesla specific. > if you take issue with this, sponsor a federal law…

I fail to see how Tesla's refusal to release data is a public policy issue and that legislation is required to fix that state of affairs. They could, you know, just release the data. Then the onus is on the rest of the industry.

More to the point, Tesla's wish to be seen as a market disrupter is only going to hold as much water for me as their willingness to do it when it counts. This is one of those "when it counts" moments for me.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#63

Post by FireBeyond »

yumraj wrote: post #53
adrianN wrote: post #2

Can we make a law that all data collected by devices that I bought belongs to me? Yes, that includes everything the websites I visit send back to the mothership.

I'd like to go one step further and want the power to delete it, or be deleted, when I want. If I'm allowed to take the 5th to not incriminate myself and not reveal my memory (data in my head), I should be similarly allowed to delete my data when it is my data in my device. It'd be an interesting case to take to the Supreme Court.

I think they would view that as destruction of evidence.

The next step in your scenario is "that security camera has data on me, I want it deleted".

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#64

Post by MiguelHudnandez »

gwbas1c wrote: post #48

Accelerator pedal immediately went from 0% to 100%? Really? Even I don't press my brake like that when parking.

Sure seems like they are hiding something. It should be impossible to make a pressure sensor read 100% instantly. It would normally take 1/3 of a second and you would see the value increase gradually.

Will autopilot even let you floor the accelerator with a car right in front of you?

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#65

Post by anywhichway »

pc86 wrote: post #17
JBReefer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point but I think arguing information about the state of your home is PII would be fairly straightforward.

Then pick any non-PII data point you like.

That doesn't really work because if it isn't PII, then they don't know who it belongs to (not having even your name is a field, or else it would be PII) and can't verify it belongs to you before giving it to you.

Like visiting websites while not logged into anything in generating tons of data, but it can't be easily linked back to you.

It would be possible to link some of it back to session IDs or other things you could be linked back to your device, but that doesn't show it was you using the device, so they may be releasing data belonging to someone else using your device to you. And that is before we get into possibilities like cookie hijacking or other methods of falsely tying your device to that generated data.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#66

Post by danso »

caio1982 wrote: post #45
danso wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No worries, looking up someone's posting history is kosher IMO. No, I'm not a Tesla customer. Nor do I have any position in Tesla stocks (or oil, for that matter). To be honest, I think the Tesla cars sound quite good, and appreciate what Musk and the company has done to make EV an attractive industry. But as you've probably seen in my Tesla-related submissions, I'm currently not a huge fan in how Tesla is currently…

Thanks man, I appreciate the honest response, and that's exactly what I was imagining (skepticism towards self-driving tech, that I share to some extent).

Here's a recent discussion by me and another user on yesterday's Tesla thread that sums up my problems with AP:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17232991

I get that Tesla's in a somewhat tough situation, having increased pressure to prove its manufacturing and sales are long-term viable. I don't agree that Tesla gets disproportionate negative media/attention (relative to the positive media that it gets), but I can see why Tesla would feel particularly harmed at this stage in development.

But since they've sold AutoPilot as a major defining feature, I think it's fair to raise it as an issue. Particularly on HN given the general interest here in AI/machine learning.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#67

Post by Maybestring »

spaceisballer wrote: post #19

Serious question, Can you get data from any other car manufacturer? I know ICE cars collect information but do you have access to it?

Typically, the manufacturer's diagnostic tool can download data from the fast stop recorder. An accident investigator should be able to access it for you.

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#68

Post by wang_li »

yumraj wrote: post #53
adrianN wrote: post #2

Can we make a law that all data collected by devices that I bought belongs to me? Yes, that includes everything the websites I visit send back to the mothership.

I'd like to go one step further and want the power to delete it, or be deleted, when I want. If I'm allowed to take the 5th to not incriminate myself and not reveal my memory (data in my head), I should be similarly allowed to delete my data when it is my data in my device. It'd be an interesting case to take to the Supreme Court.

If you wrote it down in a journal then you no longer have the right to claim 5th amendment privileges on what was written. Why would it be the case that what you put into your smart phone is more protected than what you write in a book?

http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=...

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#69

Post by FireBeyond »

pseudometa wrote: post #25

Isn't this true of any car company? BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus aren't going to hand over vehicle data. You can't just ask Google for your Android Auto data.

But as a bonus, they're not likely to be so "proactive" about handing over your vehicle data or findings to the media to help manage their publicity process, either...

Re: Tesla won’t give drivers their own crash data without a court order

#70

Post by TeMPOraL »

MisterTea wrote: post #42

Can we please go back to selling physical things instead of EULAs? If I bought the car it's mine along with all the data I generate while inside of MY vehicle. This is why I will not buy newer computer filled vehicles; they don't belong to you anymore.

Welcome to the next stage of the economy - now that we've created products for almost all daily needs, it's time to turn them into services. sigh.

I'm with you and 'adrianN on this. I hate this direction and wish we could turn it back somewhat, or at least cover for the negative aspects of servicization of products. Regulation might be a necessary tool for that.

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