How does this affect Angle, the WebGL implementation underneath Chrome? I believe Angle only has bindings for OpenGL (with Vulkan in alpha). It has no bindings to Metal.
Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
351–360 of 466 posts
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#352Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not deprecated because it’s not even there to begin with — Windows 10 doesn’t ship OpenGL by default; GPU vendors provide their own implementations. Which AFAIK they’re free to do on MacOS as well, they just don’t seem to bother since Apple was doing that work for them
> Which AFAIK they’re free to do on MacOS as well, they just don’t seem to bother since Apple was doing that work for them As far as I am aware Apple develops the GPU drivers for OS X (though, I think, based on code that the GPU vendor provides).
OpenGL is not a driver though, it's a graphics API
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And those games are horrible. They work fine for me -- both as implementation and as gameplay. > Almost all of them are built around exploiting weaknesses in the human psyche to convince people to spend money and become addicted. I think you confused casual gaming with Zynga or something. I was referring to smaller, non-AAA megatitles. Could be anything from a platform game, to Angry Birds, Monument Valley, Threes,…
I played the fuck out of Angry Birds - on Android. How exactly does forcing developers to adopt a platform specific API help anyone? That was a rhetorical question BTW, don't even try to answer it. Apple are being arrogant as fuck with this.
>How exactly does forcing developers to adopt a platform specific API help anyone?
Well, platform specific APIs aren't lowest-common-denominator affairs, and get support for native platform capabilities faster (plus can be more optimized).
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple releases about once a year, so two years before I am forced to switch to a PC?
At least you'll have the option with the games being part of steam. How many games are unplayable and never will be playable again on any phone that upgraded to iOS 11?
I'd assume it'd only be removed on iOS 14 or beyond.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#355Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nobody even really sells desktop PCs anymore except custom gaming rigs and low-power kiosk boxes. My personal impression is that while pre-built PCs are mostly sold to businesses, there is a strong growing trend since a few years to build your own PC from parts. I really do observe that if mobility is not an issue, people now tend to move away from laptops towards self-built PCs (or often rather: let a good friend…
Custom built PCs are a niche. The vast majority of people just want to buy a box that works.
> Custom built PCs are a niche. The vast majority of people just want to buy a box that works.
That is why I wrote
"(or often rather: let a good friend build one)." :-)
Seriously: In my opinion (but others might disagree) an advantage of self-built PCs over one that some company produces is that you know exactly what components are inside (in particular you can buy components in which you trust), which makes you far less dependent on driver support by the manufacturer (i.e. you can find drivers in the internet by yourself if necessary). I often had bad experience with driver support by manufacturers (expect for a few well-respected names).
Also lots of cheap PC manufacturers install lots of crapware by default, while your self-built one is a very clean install.
In summary a self-built PC often "just works" far better than a pre-built one.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#356This is a problem that is entirely of Apple's own doing. Microsoft could not care less about OpenGL on Windows. However, it works just fine. You know why? As soon as you install your video card drivers, your OpenGL implementation is no longer from Microsoft. It comes from AMD, NVidia or Intel, with all needed optimizations for their hardware. Apple insisted in not allowing this and doing the OpenGL implementation the…
Only on desktop. In case you missed the news, only DirectX is supported on UWP and store apps. To the point that Microsoft has their own port of Angle. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/gaming/compare-... https://github.com/Microsoft/angle So unless they change their mind, say goodbye to ICD drivers on Windows as well.
Is UWP/Store actually taking off? I was under the impression that it was another flop.
I run Windows at home, but wouldn't if it went Store-only. For me, an open platform is the only thing Windows had going for it.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#357Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Which AFAIK they’re free to do on MacOS as well, they just don’t seem to bother since Apple was doing that work for them As far as I am aware Apple develops the GPU drivers for OS X (though, I think, based on code that the GPU vendor provides).
OpenGL is not a driver though, it's a graphics API
At least on Windows, the OpenGL implementation is part of the graphics driver. Why? Because by default Windows only has between rudimentary (at least up to Vista, I think; I am not sure about Windows 7 and 8.1) and no (Windows 10) OpenGL support - this is what the GPU vendors provides as part of his graphics driver.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Nobody even really sells desktop PCs anymore except custom gaming rigs and low-power kiosk boxes. My personal impression is that while pre-built PCs are mostly sold to businesses, there is a strong growing trend since a few years to build your own PC from parts. I really do observe that if mobility is not an issue, people now tend to move away from laptops towards self-built PCs (or often rather: let a good friend…
The trend around me is to see the shops that used to sell PC parts closing down, while consumer stores have 80% of their PC surface full with laptops, tablets and mobile devices.
> The trend around me is to see the shops that used to sell PC parts closing down
Couldn't this be simply explained by the hypothesis that people simply buy their PC parts mostly in the internet instead of a brick and mortar shop?
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, I directly thought of 3d applications like Blender, Maya, etc which use OpenGL. It's a very weird move to me, even if the software in question will be kept compatible with Apple's Legacy OpenGL, these versions will be worse than their counterparts running on other platforms making use of new shiny OpenGL features. It's like Apple is saying 'we don't care' to the 3d professional market, also doesn't Photoshop…
After discontinuing AutoCAD for Mac in 1994 people begged for 18 years to get it back and now Apple says "eh, we didn't want that anyway." I heard they have a WebAssembly/WebGL version now, betting that'll get wrapped up in a WebView and we can all pretend it's a native program still. Speaking of WebGL, that's basically OpenGL ES 2.0, but I assume the implementation in WebKit is backed by Metal? What about other brow…
Firefox uses OpenGL to implement OpenGL ES. It also uses OpenGL for hardware accelerated compositing.
Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And those games are horrible. They work fine for me -- both as implementation and as gameplay. > Almost all of them are built around exploiting weaknesses in the human psyche to convince people to spend money and become addicted. I think you confused casual gaming with Zynga or something. I was referring to smaller, non-AAA megatitles. Could be anything from a platform game, to Angry Birds, Monument Valley, Threes,…
I'm not saying there aren't decent games on iOS. You can find gems like Monument Valley, Florence, or, as I mentioned, the games ported from other platforms like Limbo, Terraria, and so on. But take a look at the top charts on the iOS app store and compare that to the top games on Steam. With few exceptions, the games on iOS are riddled with ads, microtransactions, and are designed to be as addictive as possible. The…
Not if Microsoft has any say. I can't count the number of Windows Updates that re-installed the previously uninstalled Candy Crush Saga, Bubble Witch 3 Saga and March of Empires (among titles).