Apple introduces macOS Mojave • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#611

Post by jdietrich » Tue, Jun 05, 2018, 9:49 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #396

jdietrich wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean this to sound in any way cruel or judgemental, but a very large proportion of the population have very limited literacy skills. Emoji are useful for all users who are writing short, personal messages that might be ambiguous in tone. They are extremely useful for people who would otherwise struggle to express or understand tone and emotion using the written word. In the last National Assessment of Adult L…

> In the last National Assessment of Adult Literacy, 43% of Americans were assessed as having "basic or below basic" literacy. They can extract basic factual information from short, straightforward texts, but little more than that. That's intentionally misleading and it's thrown around frequently without clarification of what the basic and below basic levels exactly mean, how they compare to the rest of the world, an…

My comment was not intended as a critique of the American education system. Immigrants buy phones and computers. They run businesses and use SaaS products. Non-native English speakers are an important demographic that we need to keep in mind when we are designing products and writing documentation.

In a globalised world, a great many people are frequently communicating in a language that they have not fully mastered. South Africa has eleven official languages. India has 22. Globally, non-native English speakers outnumber native speakers by two-to-one. Hindi/Urdu has a roughly equal number of first and second language users.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#612

Post by 72deluxe » Tue, Jun 05, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

xmodem wrote: post #610

72deluxe wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I value the new file system (interestingly architected by the chap who did the BeFS, if only Apple had bought Be Inc!), it appears to still be lacking all the wonderful features of NTFS. I'm still on Sierra at the moment as I delay upgrading after all the horrible bugs of the new release have been found - in everyone's opinion, is now a good time to leapfrog High Sierra? Time will tell.

Anecdote is not data, but I had huge issues when I first updated, so I rolled back. About 6 weeks ago I bit the bullet and updated again and it's been fine.

Thank you - anecdotes help me because I know 1 other Mac user and he's not overly technical (day job is Windows C++ so there's little Apple love around here)

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#613

Post by xmodem » Tue, Jun 05, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #72

erichurkman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if they'll ever fix `localStorage` in private Safari windows. It breaks countless sites and Safari is the only browser to block it.

Any site that is broken by Private Browsing causing storage quota exceptions in localStorage is going to be broken by quota exceptions under "normal" operation. It's in the spec, maybe developers should make their websites a bit more resilient to the very real errors that can happen? Did they just forget about error handling?

You and many of the commenters miss an important point: Any apparent behaviour difference between private and non-private mode should be considered a bug, because sites can and do abuse it to detect private mode.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#614

Post by PaulRobinson » Tue, Jun 05, 2018, 9:56 AM UTC

some_account wrote: post #555

dmitriid wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So. The most important feature of this new release "designed for pros" that gets top placement on the announcement page is ... dark mode. The second is stacks. The third is the ports of iOS apps (including the long overdue Home). I find it very hard to be excited about a yet another "major" release that doesn't even qualify as a minor version bump.

It's not designed for pros. Linux is. Apple is about easy usage and they benefit hugely from having Linux underneath, which is why they even are considered by real pros. It looks nice and that's what people like.

It's not "Linux underneath".

It's a Mach microkernel and a BSD userland taken from FreeBSD, which coincided with them hiring the founder of FreeBSD into a role to do release management. He's left since.

The fact you don't know this suggests you might not be aware of macOS fundamentals, the history of OS X, or MacOS that preceded it, the design decisions that went into all of those, the user groups they targeted at key points (including the adoption of FreeBSD userland), or their overall design intent.

I therefore struggle to agree with your premise that it's "not designed for pros", or that you are qualified to make that assertion.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#615

Post by madeofpalk » Tue, Jun 05, 2018, 10:05 AM UTC

xmodem wrote: post #613

madeofpalk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any site that is broken by Private Browsing causing storage quota exceptions in localStorage is going to be broken by quota exceptions under "normal" operation. It's in the spec, maybe developers should make their websites a bit more resilient to the very real errors that can happen? Did they just forget about error handling?

You and many of the commenters miss an important point: Any apparent behaviour difference between private and non-private mode should be considered a bug, because sites can and do abuse it to detect private mode.

I disagree. You might be able to use it to _guess_ but all browsers can throw a quota exceeded exception under normal behaviour. I see this every now and then on mobile devices where the phone is so full the browser refuses to store more localStorage items.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#616

Post by jdietrich » Tue, Jun 05, 2018, 10:07 AM UTC

garmaine wrote: post #600

komali2 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way to say this without being insensitive, but this reminds me of a grade school joke without a punchline - "how do you write in sign-language?" Can you help me better understand what ASL language support would look like or what that would mean to you?

ASL is not English. It is an entirely separate visual language with different syntax, lexicon, etc. ASL speakers can communicate to each other over mobile devices using text in the same way that, say, 17th century intellectuals communicated using Latin, or late-dynasty Chinese officials communicated using Classical Chinese. I do not know how to sign, but I do imagine that a member of the signing community would not f…

>(Incidentally I do wonder if Swiss German or Scotts speakers feel similarly, and if they don't to what extent that serves as a counter point.)

I don't know about Swiss German speakers, but Scots speakers tend to be fairly comfortable in code-switching between standard written English and a transliterated form of Scots.

Scottish Twitter is as culturally distinctive as African American Twitter:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hilarywardle/get-right-inty-the-mic...

Wikipedia has a Scots language version:

https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#617

Post by rasur » Tue, Jun 05, 2018, 10:14 AM UTC

garmaine wrote: post #600

komali2 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way to say this without being insensitive, but this reminds me of a grade school joke without a punchline - "how do you write in sign-language?" Can you help me better understand what ASL language support would look like or what that would mean to you?

ASL is not English. It is an entirely separate visual language with different syntax, lexicon, etc. ASL speakers can communicate to each other over mobile devices using text in the same way that, say, 17th century intellectuals communicated using Latin, or late-dynasty Chinese officials communicated using Classical Chinese. I do not know how to sign, but I do imagine that a member of the signing community would not f…

Swiss-German sign language is.. interesting. It has Cantonal dialects (I wish I was joking!). I'd really prefer everyone switched to German sign-language for simplicity's sake - in the same way most Swiss-German speakers write High-German instead of dialect.

I could imagine signing emoji being pretty successful. My son is deaf, but too young to be using chat software, so it's difficult to say without asking about at his school.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#618

Post by zimpenfish » Tue, Jun 05, 2018, 10:16 AM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #565

rainbowmverse wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN doesn't support emoji, so here's an example: https://cybre.space/@Riley/100149464360818801 The meaning is immediately clear to anyone familiar with the reference. It's basically a pictographic language that leans heavily on a shared culture that's largely internet-based.

Oh, so inside jokes. Yeah that's totally new and groundbreaking.

Do you similarly disdain things like Cockney Rhyming Slang and Polari because they're effectively "inside jokes" that express things you could equally well express with "plain words"?

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#619

Post by i386 » Tue, Jun 05, 2018, 10:20 AM UTC

__david__ wrote: post #515

floatboth wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The underlying OS is extremely similar (they're both Darwin and they share the Core * frameworks). And unlike Wine, they won't be running unmodified binaries.

Well, it's closer to winelib [1], which is an integral part of Wine. [1] https://wiki.winehq.org/Winelib_User%27s_Guide#What_is_Winel...

It's not like any of those things. Its all the same technology just a slightly different API to access it.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#620

Post by Kliment » Tue, Jun 05, 2018, 10:37 AM UTC

MitjaBezensek wrote: post #73

janlukacs wrote: post #14

WWDC 2018, from underwhelming to boring. I will lose my mind if i hear *oji one more time. Will they ever stop with this nonsense? Favicons in Safari? It took them 6 years for the browser to remember the zoom setting per site, now we have the luxury of having favicons.

It's amazing that so many bright minds are wasting time on *oji.

I tolerate emoji (though don't use them myself) but I always get upset at the acceptance rate of new emoji compared to the historical acceptance rate of actual characters that are used in actual written languages by the unicode stewards.