Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple introduces macOS Mojave

apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 665 posts

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#561

Post by EpicEng »

blt wrote: post #470
EpicEng wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you really think this? ...yes? >you're woefully underestimating their impact on communication and language. The emoji library on a normal iPhone is enormous What does one have to do with the other? Yes, there are a lot of dumb icons to chose from. How does that directly lead to "[having a] large impact on communication and language"? If that's true, do you think it's a _positive_ impact?

Have you ever encountered difficulty conveying or understanding conversational tone over the internet? No? You are lying or lack self-awareness. Voice and body language are important for disambiguating sentences with more than one possible meaning or implication. Emojis approximate the role of voice tone and body language in digital text-based communication.

The discussion is not "are emojis in any form useful?", it's "do icons provide a new and before unrealized form of communication". Literally every person here missed the statement in the first comment.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#562

Post by nicky0 »

tfcata wrote: post #556
dmitriid wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So. The most important feature of this new release "designed for pros" that gets top placement on the announcement page is ... dark mode. The second is stacks. The third is the ports of iOS apps (including the long overdue Home). I find it very hard to be excited about a yet another "major" release that doesn't even qualify as a minor version bump.

It looks like dark mode is not a global option like on Linux, but rather needs to be adopted by individual apps. That means when opening old apps at 2AM, my eyes are really gonna be hurt..

Perhaps try sleeping at 2AM.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#563

Post by EpicEng »

rainbowmverse wrote: post #463
EpicEng wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't read. I said that you can convey any of these equally well in ascii. Yes, it's handy to be able to plug an :) at the end of a sentence which may otherwise sound rude/overly direct. That doesn't mean I need 1000 icons, and _that's what we're talking about_.

I read the whole thing. The emojis serve a purpose. Text doesn't serve that purpose. I don't know how to describe the niche they fill with text. They're not a stand-in for emoticons. You don't get it. It's okay. Not everything is for you.

>I don't know how to describe the niche they fill with text. They're not a stand-in for emoticons.

So you can't explain it, but it's I who "doesn't get it". Ok then. I'll excuse you for a bit as it's going to take some time to untwist your brain from that logical contortion.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#564

Post by jurip »

Klonoar wrote: post #98
nxc18 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hope significant are the differences between cocoa and uikit? I don't have any experience besides some light source browsing and it seemed the big difference is the NS to UI prefix change. Anyone care to summarize for the unenlightened?

The differences are more in implementation than anything else: - AppKit isn't layer-backed by default, requiring you to handle this. Something as simple as setting the background color for an NSView is far more of a ritual than it is for a UIView. - NSColor/NSImage under the hood are different than UIColor and UIImage. - NSTableView and NSCollectionView have big differences (NSCollectionView is more subtle, I should…

I prefer working with UIKit too, but there are reasons for some of the differences. Jeff Nadeau, an AppKit engineer, wrote a bit about them a couple of weeks ago: https://gist.github.com/jnadeau/9321a22b19301215e25401ffd1f1...

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#565

Post by EpicEng »

rainbowmverse wrote: post #480
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know how to describe the niche they fill with text. Consider the possibility that this is because there isn't one.

HN doesn't support emoji, so here's an example: https://cybre.space/@Riley/100149464360818801 The meaning is immediately clear to anyone familiar with the reference. It's basically a pictographic language that leans heavily on a shared culture that's largely internet-based.

Oh, so inside jokes. Yeah that's totally new and groundbreaking.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#566

Post by EpicEng »

paulcole wrote: post #527
EpicEng wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok well here's what I actually said. It's right up there if you want to take another look. > At best they're just prettier versions of :) and :( and I don't see how they allow people to convey ideas they couldn't do just as well via text. Never did I say "These are dumb get off my lawn!" I said they don't meaningfully impact or improve communication, which is in direct response to the person I replied to who said tha…

> The debate is not "are pretty things nice" If the debate is not about how something looks then why was your first instinct to dismiss them as “just prettier versions of :) and :(“?

>If the debate is not about how something looks then why was your first instinct to dismiss them as “just prettier versions of :) and :(“?

...because I was responding to someone who said emojis were a new and previously unrealized form of communication! Seriously guys...

You know, you're right; I find myself reaching for a "smashes head against brick wall" emoji right about now.

Oh, damn; I just described that emotion with words. I guess I'm still right.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#567

Post by Klonoar »

jurip wrote: post #564
Klonoar wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The differences are more in implementation than anything else: - AppKit isn't layer-backed by default, requiring you to handle this. Something as simple as setting the background color for an NSView is far more of a ritual than it is for a UIView. - NSColor/NSImage under the hood are different than UIColor and UIImage. - NSTableView and NSCollectionView have big differences (NSCollectionView is more subtle, I should…

I prefer working with UIKit too, but there are reasons for some of the differences. Jeff Nadeau, an AppKit engineer, wrote a bit about them a couple of weeks ago: https://gist.github.com/jnadeau/9321a22b19301215e25401ffd1f1...

Yup, I follow him on Twitter. :)

Regardless of how correct he probably is, the fact of the matter is that there's overwhelmingly more developers on the UIKit side and that API is what people clearly prefer - the only ones voicing otherwise are old Cocoa-heads. It's ridiculous that it's 10 years later and Apple is only now confronting this.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#568

Post by Klonoar »

jonhendry18 wrote: post #540
wingerlang wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that is exactly the kind of ritual he was talking about.

Not much of a ritual, really. Couple lines of code. Just a common case of using a UI widget in a way that isn't really done on UIKit.

So is the half-assed approach of working with the layer background. ;P

That's what a ritual is; it's 2018 and I should not have to go out of my way to set a damn background color on a view. UIView has predictable behavior, AppKit does not.

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#569

Post by baddox »

komali2 wrote: post #422
brothercolor wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed -- as a Deaf person who uses visual languages to communicate, it's allowed me to actually begin to express myself using a set of pseudo-language visual elements. Some of them roughly map over to ASL expressions; I am looking forward to when they add ASL-specific emoji, or ASL language support, or even hands in the new animoji.

There's no way to say this without being insensitive, but this reminds me of a grade school joke without a punchline - "how do you write in sign-language?" Can you help me better understand what ASL language support would look like or what that would mean to you?

I would imagine that ASL speakers have usage patterns that they would like to express via text messaging without simply “translating” them into formal written English. That’s no different than why English speakers use emoji (“” instead of “I am happy”) or informal onomatopoeia (“uggh” instead of “I am annoyed”).

Re: Apple introduces macOS Mojave

#570

Post by bambataa »

sanderjd wrote: post #440
bambataa wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend asked if he could crash at my place one night and said “don’t worry if not, I got options” followed by the nail-painting emoji. How do you express that in ASCII emoticons?

It's hard to say how to express that, since I have absolutely no idea what it means :) If I got that message I would be pretty confused. Is the other option literal nail-painting or is it just sarcasm?

The nail-painting one can be used to be a bit ‘sassy’, so it’s like saying “don’t worry, I know other ways to find myself a bed for the night ;-)” but in a more nuanced way that I at least find funnier.

It’s probably not a universal meaning but my point is that emojis can be used to express more than just basic emoticon ‘UNIVERSAL EXPRESSION OF HUMAN HAPPINESS’ style things.

Post reply on HN