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GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

akr.am

141–150 of 162 posts

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#141
Disclaimer - I am CEO of WSO2, a pure open source company. We philosophically oppose open core business models.

The author is speaking to the differences between the open core and open source business models. I've been writing increasingly about the differences between these models on my Medium blog about WSO2's growth story, our thoughts on the MULE acquisition by CRM (another open core vendor), and our open source business model.

WSO2 is a pure open source business model and we believe that it's more honest, efficient, and scalable. Also, if executed in the right manner, there is no risk from IP exploitation. We have been able to demonstrate that as we are growing on an ARR basis faster than MULE with an equal customer net dollar retention with negative churn, while getting to cash flow positive operations.

Our biggest rationale on why this is the case is that our internal teams do not compromise productivity by perpetually wrestling with where the “for free/for pay” line must be drawn. It is expensive for an enterprise vendor to determine the best model of where for-fee options reside. Not only does the vendor have to develop a strategy, but they must communicate this to all their employees and then justify it to the open market. This is evidenced in this thread and in the many HN threads for Gitlab - their management team has to invest time and energy into explaining the philosophy that was used to establish the line. It's rarely intuitive, so some non-zero effort goes into that education internally and externally.

These costs are passed along to customers and require significantly higher forms of capital from investors. This line does not stay static, either. The nature of open source is that is erodes and impedes upon the areas where a vendor is selling their proprietary extensions. This means the “for free/for pay” line must be periodically rethought. This is a continual process, and this is time where inefficiencies are introduced.

In the pure open source model, we just tell our developers to design and build. And we can focus on a single pricing solution of value in and around that overall platform. It saves us a lot of emotional capital, too, because people get very committed on where they think the free / for pay line must be drawn.

Finally, it lets us be more up front with customers. They know that our sales reps have nothing to gain by suggesting one tech stack over another. Customers can use the entire stack before they talk to us and so if they are really engaged, then we are engaged for a value added subscription for all of the right reasons, and we don't have to lengthen the sales cycle while they try to decide which route they want to take - open source or proprietary.

[1] https://blog.usejournal.com/wso2s-growth-story-and-why-open-...

[2] https://blog.usejournal.com/salesforces-acquisition-of-mules...

[3] https://blog.usejournal.com/wso2s-open-source-business-model...

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#142

GitLab or ANY company has no obligation to give away it's work under liberal OSS terms. GitLab is NOT a charity, the hypocritical expectation of OSS while still expecting silicon-valley style exorbitant compensation for being an employee is clearly at odds, companies can only afford such salaries if they eke out handsome profits. Ergo, if you expect a good salary for your work, prepare to pay for good products. RedHa…

I'd argue that our company, WSO2, which is now the 7th largest OSS company is doing well. We will push $50M in sales this year, EBIT positive, cash flow positive. Growing 60% yoy. All of our software is Apache licensed.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#143
post #104
post #39

"Open core" is just plain ol' proprietary software. Mac OS X is "open core" in the very literal sense that kernel and core are synonyms. It's really no big innovation to be selling secret sauce on top of free software; Android is also "open core" as is Matlab. Nowadays literally almost all proprietary software has bits of weakly-licensed free software in it such as curl or React. I've never been very impressed by Git…

One important difference between macOS and GitLab is that there are people running GitLab's free-software edition (e.g.,. https://salsa.debian.net/ ), and I know of I think nobody who's running Darwin. Android leans towards the GitLab side because there are meaningful third-party distributions of Android. Matlab is an interesting case because there are extremely popular libraries using its open-core components - esse…

The company I work for used Darwin in place of CentOS up until some time in 2015 for a good number of years. Do not recommend. At all. The case insensitive file system didn't help though in terms of running things it seemed okay but I have a feeling it wasn't really that great. Darwin seems like a good idea on paper but I don't feel like it's all that usable.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just utterly wrong. yum upgrade Done. No problems for years now. Not a single one.

Are you using it? I've yet to come across anyone hosting their own gitlab instance that has not had trouble of some sort.

I am using it on Digital Ocean. I have had no issues whatsoever. Not only that, it’s a 1-click application too so I didn’t even have any setup issues.

That’s not to say I won’t have trouble of some sort one day - but what software is 100% trouble free?

Edit: typos

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just utterly wrong. yum upgrade Done. No problems for years now. Not a single one.

Are you using it? I've yet to come across anyone hosting their own gitlab instance that has not had trouble of some sort.

Really? I've been using and selfhosting it for years without issue.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just utterly wrong. yum upgrade Done. No problems for years now. Not a single one.

Are you using it? I've yet to come across anyone hosting their own gitlab instance that has not had trouble of some sort.

My company has been self hosting the CE edition for quite a while; it's been totally smooth. Zero issues.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#147
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using it? I've yet to come across anyone hosting their own gitlab instance that has not had trouble of some sort.

My company has been self hosting the CE edition for quite a while; it's been totally smooth. Zero issues.

Same here. After a few years and moving it around from server to server (switched hosts a couple times), it's run flawlessly and upgrades are just one apt-get upgrade away...never had a single issue with that. We have 40+ projects and utilize container registry and CI with Kubernetes as well.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#148

So it's not financially viable to run such companies without trick like these. If our financial system does not allow for companies like Github/Gitlab who provided positive value to society at large to sustain then perhaps the finanical system is to blame. About Github/Gitlab employees, I can provide them housing, food, and some soft benefits. Can they work for free so that Github/Gitlab become sustainable? Why gover…

My working hypothesis is that more 'evil' the player is higher the margin they'll have because by definition they are providing as much value to their customers. problem is this means they'll have a lot more resources to burn on 'non-essential' avenues such as lobbying and kickbacks. this, IMHO, is the reason you see the rise of so many BS professions all the while little hourly worker is getting squeezed out. honestly I dont see an end in sight.

far as the govt goes, its a good idea but the problem is the moment you take survival fear out of a company right that moment they'll start dragging their feet and become unproductive. so you are back to square one. IMO a social utility like model needs to evolve. And we need near religious zeal on enforcing antitrust/monopoly law.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just utterly wrong. yum upgrade Done. No problems for years now. Not a single one.

Are you using it? I've yet to come across anyone hosting their own gitlab instance that has not had trouble of some sort.

Anecdotal but I’ve gone through two major versions and a bunch of point releases at $dayjob and the worst that ever happened was a failed database migration that didn’t actually break anything.

It’s probably the easiest thing to upgrade in our entire app stack.

Re: GitLab Isn’t Really Open-Source

#150

I've been a user of gitlab for 4yrs+. Its a great tool and a nice alternative to github for all us crazy "i want to have code on-prem" folks. That being said gitlab ce and its relationship to ee is more and more complicated. What started out at missing select features is now full out armaggedon of lacking features. See latest releases and youll see that all the cool stuff is comming out only to ee. Whats even worse,…

We went Gitlab to Bitbucket + Jira. Quite a bit more power, for less money (even after paying for cloud testers).

Oddly enough we went exactly the other direction. Atlassian user tiers are huge (almost geometric in size) with the result that you end up paying for a ton of unnecessary head count.

The CI obsoleting Bamboo and the collab tools obsoleting the dev features of Jira were icing on the cake. And a true up license model that doesn’t immediately bring all work to a screeching halt when you add one user too many to the app access group in your directory was just the cherry on top.

Normally I’m a huge fanboy of everything Atlassian but the Jira/Bamboo/Crucible/Bitbucket stack just feels very clunky and outdated with Gitlab as something to compare against.

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