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Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

developer.apple.com

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Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#161

Post by astrange »

anaphylactic wrote: post #126
Brakenshire wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need a new more developer-friendly API built on top of Vulkan as a replacement for OpenGL.

I believe (hope) that OpenGL continues to be that developer-friendly API. Building OpenGL on top of Vulkan shouldn't be too hard, and it means we don't have to pointlessly deprecate and recreate the huge number of OpenGL resources out there.

OpenGL isn't friendly to developers on either side. Tutorials are generally not trustworthy, there's no cross platform debugging tools, and errors just get you a "something happened vOv" code.

If you care about performance it will just do something slow at uncontrollable points in the background, like copy CPU-GPU-CPU memory, synchronize against the GPU, do format conversions, etc.

If you're the one implementing GL, it's gotten gigantic again since they simplified it. GL 4.3/4.6 core has compute shaders, which means you have to implement OpenCL twice but different this time.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#162

Post by wolfgke »

msbarnett wrote: post #143
amag wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenGL is still an option on Windows, it's not deprecated.

It’s not deprecated because it’s not even there to begin with — Windows 10 doesn’t ship OpenGL by default; GPU vendors provide their own implementations. Which AFAIK they’re free to do on MacOS as well, they just don’t seem to bother since Apple was doing that work for them

> Which AFAIK they’re free to do on MacOS as well, they just don’t seem to bother since Apple was doing that work for them

As far as I am aware Apple develops the GPU drivers for OS X (though, I think, based on code that the GPU vendor provides).

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#163

Post by unique_parrot2 »

unique_parrot2 wrote: post #122

python, bash, opengl :( Scientists just want to use it! (as of high sierra python 2.7, bash 3.2, ....) New thing: DARK THEME, YES, OMG :( Is apple holding the future back???? Where is the innovation?

tar (bsdtar) apple: v2.8, current 3.2 feel free to continue...

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#164

Post by Jedi72 »

Tloewald wrote: post #144
mankash666 wrote: post #96

The classic "Fuck Off" hubris from Apple. Their B.S. is getting out of hand. List of gripes: 1. Heavy handed regulation of app store: This needs intervention from regulatory authorities. Apple has successfully inserted itself between the consumer and producer of apps. It plays kingmaker, and very clearly promotes internal apps to the competition (recent ban of the Steam app is a prime example). It's only legal recour…

1. If cable tv providers can get away with disintermediating TV viewers from TV stations I don’t see how Apple is any worse, especially since I can still buy third party apps, but I can’t either set up or tune into an indie TV station. Amazon is a far worse problem with respect to books (and without any demonstrable user benefit) so good luck waiting for regulation here. 2. Again, you can use Chrome on a Mac. The App…

"Why are you arresting me for armed robbery, dont you know that guy is a Murderer??"

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#165

Post by rossy »

amag wrote: post #56
coldtea wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Requiring developers to use an API locked to a particular platform feels pretty hostile to me. So like DirectX?

OpenGL is still an option on Windows, it's not deprecated.

That depends on who you ask. OpenGL is in the deprecated API section on MSDN[1]. Because of the ICD model, Microsoft can't prevent GPU vendors from adding OpenGL features, but they don't bother integrating it with modern Windows APIs. You can't create an OpenGL context on a DirectComposition surface or in a UWP app. It integrates poorly with the compositor. You can't get composition feedback, and most drivers will flicker or show artifacts when windows are resized. OpenGL apps don't get windowed-fullscreen optimizations and you can't control when they enter exclusive fullscreen mode. I don't think you can use windowed-stereoscopic or windowed-HDR either. All these issues push developers away from OpenGL and towards DirectX, which is what Microsoft wants.

[1]: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ff8...

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#166

Post by mankash666 »

Tloewald wrote: post #144
mankash666 wrote: post #96

The classic "Fuck Off" hubris from Apple. Their B.S. is getting out of hand. List of gripes: 1. Heavy handed regulation of app store: This needs intervention from regulatory authorities. Apple has successfully inserted itself between the consumer and producer of apps. It plays kingmaker, and very clearly promotes internal apps to the competition (recent ban of the Steam app is a prime example). It's only legal recour…

1. If cable tv providers can get away with disintermediating TV viewers from TV stations I don’t see how Apple is any worse, especially since I can still buy third party apps, but I can’t either set up or tune into an indie TV station. Amazon is a far worse problem with respect to books (and without any demonstrable user benefit) so good luck waiting for regulation here. 2. Again, you can use Chrome on a Mac. The App…

HN is where you stay on topic, argue on merits and stick to subject matter, and stay dignified. Take your personal insults and strawmanning to 4chan?

4Chan - whose app is likely to be rejected [1] by Apple for violating app store TOS. There - they love censoring speech too. But I bet you already knew that while fellating Apple's middle management, and the app store review team. Ok fine, I did the exact opposite of what I was preaching about dignity, but didn't Apple once run a 1984 themed ad before turning into big brother

[1]: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-iOS-app-for-browsing-...

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#167

Post by SXX »

ozten wrote: post #137
SXX wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything on that list is relevant, but please keep in mind that banning custom browser engines isn't particularly bad thing for everyone. Of course Apple doing it to force web developers to keep supporting Safari since no one can simply expect iOS users to install Chrome, but it's also benefit open web greatly since it's preserve status quo that we have more than just one browser engine. The day Apple stop doing it…

I don't buy that a platform excluding rendering engines helps keep the web diverse and open. Apple has crippled the mobile web since iOS reinvented the category. How many years before the file upload widget worked?

I myself had to fix weird Safari and sometimes even iOS-only bugs more than once, but it's just Apple cripple it's own platform. Also even if it's annoying for web developers these things still keep our eye keen on how what we work on look in something other than Chrome.

Unfortunately Google has abysmal power over web right now and I cant count how many times I see them cripple experience for Firefox. Now they even outright saying that new Adwords interface only work in Chrome. And AMP only prove how little we can trust Google.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#168

Post by GeekyBear »

outworlder wrote: post #83

This is a problem that is entirely of Apple's own doing. Microsoft could not care less about OpenGL on Windows. However, it works just fine. You know why? As soon as you install your video card drivers, your OpenGL implementation is no longer from Microsoft. It comes from AMD, NVidia or Intel, with all needed optimizations for their hardware. Apple insisted in not allowing this and doing the OpenGL implementation the…

What makes you think that Apple refuses to allow GPU vendors to provide an OpenGL implementation?

The real question is why would a GPU vendor go through the expense of creating and supporting such an implementation when Apple doesn't even make a computer with slots that you can install their video cards into?

If producing an OpenGL implementation doesn't provide a competitive advantage for selling their products, why would they bother?

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#169

Post by jmarinez »

mankash666 wrote: post #96

The classic "Fuck Off" hubris from Apple. Their B.S. is getting out of hand. List of gripes: 1. Heavy handed regulation of app store: This needs intervention from regulatory authorities. Apple has successfully inserted itself between the consumer and producer of apps. It plays kingmaker, and very clearly promotes internal apps to the competition (recent ban of the Steam app is a prime example). It's only legal recour…

You do know you have choices in the operating systems and hardware you use. If that's not a viable option, engaging in dialogue with Apple might be the way to go.

Re: Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL

#170

Post by GeekyBear »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #75
xellisx wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didnt Apple steal all the code from one FOSS BSDs, closed sourced it and call it a day?

Mac OS X is based on the closed source NextStep; in many respects, the Darwin kernel is the continuation of NextStep's kernel. A fair amount of the user space code of OS X is from FreeBSD, which to the best of my knowledge continues along merrily open source as ever. Apple actually hired one of FreeBSD's lead developers to manage their BSD technology group. And, I mean, c'mon. The move from NextStep to Darwin moved t…

OpenCL itself is something that was created by Apple, and then turned over to Khronos as an open source project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL#History

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