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The great video game exodus

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Re: The great video game exodus

#141

Post by dragontamer »

pandaman wrote: post #61
wpietri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other parallel that interests me comes up in this article. Frank D’Angelo got into games because he loved them as a kid. And that's ultimately what guaranteed that he'd be treated poorly: so many people want to get into games that there's always another sucker to take his place. It's the same thing with acting. The number of people who want to be Hollywood actors is much smaller than the number of people who end…

This comparison goes further - the vast majority of people who want to be actors suck at being one. Or musicians. Or writers. Or any other artists. Few who have talent/luck/x-factor get money and fame, the rest wash out. Yet, somehow, it's believed that games are completely different and everyone who wants to make games is good enough to be able make living off it.

> This comparison goes further - the vast majority of people who want to be actors suck at being one. Or musicians. Or writers. Or any other artists.

Most people realize they suck and don't try to make a career out of it.

If you look at the truly dedicated actors, musicians, or whatever, out there... the ones who practiced during High School and/or pursued Drama degrees in college... they're for the most part, as high quality as any other Hollywood actor.

You can pretty much go into any off-Broadway or even local Theater and find excellent singing, dancing, and/or acting technique.

That is to say: "Good Actors" truly exist, and most people that I've personally met in the field seem to be of "good" quality or better.

Unfortunately, life sucks for them. Just being 'good' isn't enough, you basically need to reach "Star" status to get anywhere these days.

"Stars" are often worse actors than these dedicated unknown folk actually. The thing about "Stars" is that they've built up brand recognition and have learned to generate free press through (often contrived) magazine drama.

Long story short: being a successful actor is COMPLETELY different from being a "good" actor. A good actor can take on a variety of storyline roles, memorizing lines, creating characters, holding a stage presence, etc. etc. Stuff that takes lots of practice, but there really are a LOT of people out there who are really, really, really good at this.

------------

To put it into technical / programming terms: no one really cares if a game programmer has excellent architecture and bug-free code. Hell, the Speedrunning community seems to prefer bug-ridden code for the credit-warp glitch, sequence-breaks, or whatnot.

Re: The great video game exodus

#142

Post by pandaman »

pascalxus wrote: post #137
pandaman wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comparison goes further - the vast majority of people who want to be actors suck at being one. Or musicians. Or writers. Or any other artists. Few who have talent/luck/x-factor get money and fame, the rest wash out. Yet, somehow, it's believed that games are completely different and everyone who wants to make games is good enough to be able make living off it.

It took me along time to realize this but, Actually, the exact opposite might be true. Look at the consumer reviews of most games: over and over you see "uhhh, great way to kill time... etc". On the weekend, I can see my brother playing yet another iphone game, repeatedly tapping away at the screen mindlessly clicking the same spot over and over. Most consumers simply aren't that selective. They go with whatever game…

There is gaming industry beyond mobile phones. But even on mobile phones there are still games making millions per day and games with <1000 downloads. So people making the former kind have very different careers than people producing the latter.

Re: The great video game exodus

#143

Post by mywittyname »

nradov wrote: post #97
kraig911 wrote: post #22

I think the video game industry is literally run like the movie industry except there is no union to help the people who make the actual magic happen unlike say the entertainment industry. I realize that some hate unions but some things on this world literally could not happen unless we respect people, their time, and their families. Some things are worth more than money and I"m grateful for the games I get to play.…

Are you seriously suggesting government funding for video game development? There's no way I'd be willing to have my tax dollars wasted on that.

The military has been involved in back-channel funding of video game development for 10-15 years now. Every triple-a shooter title out there has a team of active duty military members in the credits. They make for excellent recruitment tools.

For better or worse, entertainment shapes public policy. So it's no surprise that the government gets involved.

Re: The great video game exodus

#144

Post by [deleted] »

nradov wrote: post #132
kraig911 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Are you not aware now that kids are more likely to play video games than watch television yet we pay into PBS. Are you not aware that much of what we enjoy and work for in life was because of the awareness brought by an artists passion. Arts are just as important to fund as research. Otherwise life is not worth living.

Life can be lived just fine without video games. Anyone can enjoy public art without needing access to a particular type of device. Gamers seem to have a growing sense of entitlement.

[deleted]

Re: The great video game exodus

#145

Post by greggman »

wpietri wrote: post #101
greggman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it run like the movie industry? AFAIK in the movie industry few publishers and or studios actually have any production staff on hand. Instead what happens is a core team write and pitch a movie idea. Only after they've gotten funding and done preproduction then they hire contractors short term (1-3 months) to make the movie. In games most studios hire all the staff. They then have the issue that between projects 9…

> He seemed to forget he was being paid $80k a year for his game ideas regardless of if they got used or not. Money is one reason people do things, but rarely the only one. Especially smart, creative people. The notion that people lose the right to complain as long as the paychecks keep coming is poisonous.

I'm not saying you shouldn't complain but on the other hand to me it's like a director complaining someone didn't watch her movie under perfect conditions or a book author complaining someone read the last chapter first.

the game designer sold his idea to his company and then complained the customer didn't use the product the way the designer wanted. it might be frustrating but it's not the designer's choice. the designers choice was arguably not to sell the idea in the first place. once sold it's no longer theirs to control

in general that designer's attitude was forgetting that they had actually gotten paid for their ideas. they took their salary for granted and forgot they had a business arrangement of getting paid for their ideas.

Re: The great video game exodus

#146

Post by krageon »

shawn wrote: post #32
vvanders wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy to say, hard/impossible to do. When you're paycheck to paycheck(which I was in gamedev, yay high col) "not crunching" isn't really a choice when you risk getting labeled "not a team player" and slow-rolled towards the door.

This is partly because most gamedevs lack confidence. There's nothing stopping you from walking out from abuse -- the door is right there. It's harder to admit to yourself when your job is abusive. Harder still: admitting you don't really like your job, and you're ok with finding a new one. Finding a new job can be difficult for gamedevs, but transitioning out of gamedev is surprisingly easy. At the end of the day, i…

Of course, if the alternative to that abuse is literally living on the streets it's not really a choice anymore (except in the most inane sense). It then becomes "if you want to live, you will let daddy corporate tell you whatever he wants" - coincidentally, this is precisely what we're seeing.

Re: The great video game exodus

#147

Post by bsenftner »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #134
bsenftner wrote: post #84

"The Games Industry" is a shit hole of illegal corporate exploitation. I am one of those rare "long term game developers" - but not, because I left after 15 years of trying to develop some/any collaboration against the exploitation. I was one of the OS developers for the 3DO and the first PlayStation, a lead tech at both E.A. and Sony, lead engineer of games I know you played, and I can state first hand the illegal e…

God bless you. I was the only person I ever met with a R.E.A.L 3DO, but I loved it even though everyone else had a Playstation. Gex, Way of the Warrior, Alone in the Dark, Another World and Fifa 95 were my life after school etc...

I wrote the video subsystem as well as the video playback for RoadRash 3DO

Re: The great video game exodus

#148

Post by wpietri »

greggman wrote: post #145
wpietri wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He seemed to forget he was being paid $80k a year for his game ideas regardless of if they got used or not. Money is one reason people do things, but rarely the only one. Especially smart, creative people. The notion that people lose the right to complain as long as the paychecks keep coming is poisonous.

I'm not saying you shouldn't complain but on the other hand to me it's like a director complaining someone didn't watch her movie under perfect conditions or a book author complaining someone read the last chapter first. the game designer sold his idea to his company and then complained the customer didn't use the product the way the designer wanted. it might be frustrating but it's not the designer's choice. the des…

A major difference being that a book reader doesn't say they're doing anything in particular with the book. People hiring creatives, though, very rarely say, "Well, we'll give you your money, but there's a 70% chance we'll fuck you over." Important other differences include exclusivity (readers aren't), amount of time wasted (after the book is published, each additional reader consumes approximately zero author time), type of relationship (readers are consumers; creative employers are collaborators), and expectations of control (which are common for creative workers).

A closer analogy is a film director being upset that the studio didn't live up to the expectations created during the deal negotiation process. That happens all the time with films, and approximately nobody tells directors, "You got paid; STFU."

Re: The great video game exodus

#149

Post by meko »

pandaman wrote: post #61
wpietri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other parallel that interests me comes up in this article. Frank D’Angelo got into games because he loved them as a kid. And that's ultimately what guaranteed that he'd be treated poorly: so many people want to get into games that there's always another sucker to take his place. It's the same thing with acting. The number of people who want to be Hollywood actors is much smaller than the number of people who end…

This comparison goes further - the vast majority of people who want to be actors suck at being one. Or musicians. Or writers. Or any other artists. Few who have talent/luck/x-factor get money and fame, the rest wash out. Yet, somehow, it's believed that games are completely different and everyone who wants to make games is good enough to be able make living off it.

Talent, like luck, is an illusion. It does not exist. There is only skill, which is acquired through time, experience, and practice.
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