Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#131

Post by cryptoz » Mon, Jun 04, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #117

This and the discussion here is obnoxiously bad. Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. What you guys seem to be objecting to is that non-facebook code was able to interact with authorized user data. But that is a necessary feature of displaying data of any kind (unless facebook owns the e…

> This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined.

I see you're using the new definition of literally, the one that means figuratively. In the same sentence you have said it is no different and then said it is vastly different. Your post makes no sense.

Even if you were right that the data is 100% hash-compatible, SHA-1 it and get the same data as the API (you're wrong), it being streamlined is a huge difference and makes this news, in fact.

You surely agree that an individual person walking up to others on the street and asking a question is different than a team of 10M people doing them same thing, right? But there's "literally no difference", just streamlined?

Streamlining something defines patents and makes billions. Streamlining a legal activity can make it illegal.

Your post is wrong, you are using logical fallacies and you are then blaming everyone else with harsh language, while it is is you who seems to have, in your own words, some kind of "facebook derangement syndrome". Wow, those are rude words. Flagged.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#132

Post by hackinthebochs » Mon, Jun 04, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

Latteland wrote: post #126

hackinthebochs wrote: post #117

This and the discussion here is obnoxiously bad. Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. What you guys seem to be objecting to is that non-facebook code was able to interact with authorized user data. But that is a necessary feature of displaying data of any kind (unless facebook owns the e…

No, you are wrong, this is a pretty egregious mistake. They defined device makers as service providers, and then allowed them to do things that even third parties weren't allowed. Yet they claimed they shut that stuff off to third parties (so they lied by omission). "No, we don't allow third parties anymore to do that kind of stuff" (but there's this large group that can do it, but we aren't calling them third partie…

>They defined device makers as service providers, and then allowed them to do things that even third parties weren't allowed.

Because they're not third parties. Third parties are anyone off the street that meets some minimal requirements. It's like the distinction between third party and second party releases on video game consoles. Second party releases are extensions of the first party publisher because of the special access and extra scrutiny they get. The difference in this case is that this "special access" is apparently no different than what you get from the website through scraping HTML, just in a more convenient manner.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#133

Post by bobdole1234 » Mon, Jun 04, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

tyrionsrke wrote: post #125

hackinthebochs wrote: post #117

This and the discussion here is obnoxiously bad. Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. What you guys seem to be objecting to is that non-facebook code was able to interact with authorized user data. But that is a necessary feature of displaying data of any kind (unless facebook owns the e…

You're conflating the issue of informed consent with access ubiquity. Simply because the data was gathered in a way not unlike most apps, doesn't make it a non-story. In fact, the lack of informed consent and the very misleading statements to Congress make it a huge story. User data is a commodity, and is worth far more than money. Considering how easily manipulated large portions of the Facebook community can be (e.…

If these people are so easily swayed and manipulated, what exactly is informed consent supposed to cure?

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#134

Post by snowwrestler » Mon, Jun 04, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #117

This and the discussion here is obnoxiously bad. Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. What you guys seem to be objecting to is that non-facebook code was able to interact with authorized user data. But that is a necessary feature of displaying data of any kind (unless facebook owns the e…

> Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined.

If I found out that Google was using Chrome during my authenticated Facebook web sessions to scrape my Facebook data, and my friends' Facebook data, I'd be pretty upset too.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#135

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 04, 2018, 3:32 PM UTC

tyrionsrke wrote: post #125

hackinthebochs wrote: post #117

This and the discussion here is obnoxiously bad. Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. What you guys seem to be objecting to is that non-facebook code was able to interact with authorized user data. But that is a necessary feature of displaying data of any kind (unless facebook owns the e…

You're conflating the issue of informed consent with access ubiquity. Simply because the data was gathered in a way not unlike most apps, doesn't make it a non-story. In fact, the lack of informed consent and the very misleading statements to Congress make it a huge story. User data is a commodity, and is worth far more than money. Considering how easily manipulated large portions of the Facebook community can be (e.…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#136

Post by yk » Mon, Jun 04, 2018, 3:32 PM UTC

philipwhiuk wrote: post #122

yk wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Editorial: It's startling to me how outfits as reputable as NYT can time and again parrot a narative (e.g., FB is better than sliced bread), and then after the fact report on something that was right under their nose all along. That is almost completely a problem of the format of news articles, and that journalists have to write for a lowest common denominator. Take as an example from the NYT article: > Details of…

> the NYT seems to define "third party" as any party that is not Facebook This is what third party means

I agree, however my point is, that this is potentially just a disagreement over definitions, not a disagreement over reality.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#137

Post by alistproducer2 » Mon, Jun 04, 2018, 3:32 PM UTC

hackinthebochs wrote: post #117

This and the discussion here is obnoxiously bad. Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. What you guys seem to be objecting to is that non-facebook code was able to interact with authorized user data. But that is a necessary feature of displaying data of any kind (unless facebook owns the e…

This is very different than scraping html. Facebook has obviously been lying about 3ed party data access.

This comment is incoherent, at best, and it says a lot about how far the HN community has sunk that it is the top comment. "------ derangement" syndrome is a common phrase used on lots of political blogs that also specialize in nonsensical arguments and don't seem to care that entities in power lie through their teeth.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#138

Post by hackinthebochs » Mon, Jun 04, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

tyrionsrke wrote: post #125

hackinthebochs wrote: post #117

This and the discussion here is obnoxiously bad. Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. What you guys seem to be objecting to is that non-facebook code was able to interact with authorized user data. But that is a necessary feature of displaying data of any kind (unless facebook owns the e…

You're conflating the issue of informed consent with access ubiquity. Simply because the data was gathered in a way not unlike most apps, doesn't make it a non-story. In fact, the lack of informed consent and the very misleading statements to Congress make it a huge story. User data is a commodity, and is worth far more than money. Considering how easily manipulated large portions of the Facebook community can be (e.…

There is no issue of informed consent here. When you upload data, you consent to your allowed friends being able to view that data in whatever manner they see fit. These device specific interfaces to facebook is just an example of this. FB themselves took reasonable steps to ensure the device manufacturers adhered to the consent that users give when adding data to the site (i.e. only use the data in service to displaying it).

>The objection is that, once again, powerful information is being traded and used as leverage to drive profit

There's no evidence of any of this.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#139

Post by TAForObvReasons » Mon, Jun 04, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

Latteland wrote: post #127

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This disregard for ethics has allowed Facebook to “grow at all costs." There's a great phrase for this: "move fast and break things". When you believe it is ok to break small rules and norms, it becomes easier to break larger norms and ethics and rules. This philosophy took SV by storm, but at its core it's always been about disregarding things like laws and ethics, and now we are seeing the world that created.

Move fast and break things means don't be afraid to try things that might fail, but it doesn't mean ethics don't matter. There has long been a concern about what facebook does with people's privacy, now there's no doubt they went way too far.

> Move fast and break things means don't be afraid to try things that might fail, but it doesn't mean ethics don't matter.

Sure it does. Move fast and break things means don't be afraid to try new things, but the line isn't "ethical concerns" but rather "legality". There's a whole gray area between what is ethically acceptable and what is legally acceptable, and FB profits in that gray area that other companies are afraid to try because of their corporate values or personal misgivings.

Re: Facebook Gave Device Makers Deep Access to Data on Users and Friends

#140

Post by hackinthebochs » Mon, Jun 04, 2018, 3:35 PM UTC

philipwhiuk wrote: post #119

hackinthebochs wrote: post #117

This and the discussion here is obnoxiously bad. Facebook gave some device makers special APIs to access authorized data. This is literally no different than a web API or scraping facebook HTML, just more streamlined. What you guys seem to be objecting to is that non-facebook code was able to interact with authorized user data. But that is a necessary feature of displaying data of any kind (unless facebook owns the e…

Should that data have been available via a web API or Facebook's HTML though?

>Should that data have been available via a web API or Facebook's HTML though

There is no evidence that these APIs provided more data than a user had legitimate access to.