Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe

#181

Post by PenguinCoder » Sat, Jun 02, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #173

mseebach wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen an estimate that credit cards are actually slightly cheaper overall for the economy than cash, when you factor in everything. The physical infrastructure to deal with cash is not cheap.

Those two aren't the only options, though. Many other electronic payment methods exist that are better than credit cards in almost every way.

Which payment methods are readily available to consumers and business owners that is 'better than credit cards in almost every way'?

Re: Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe

#182

Post by fwdpropaganda » Sat, Jun 02, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

See, if only Visa would be running on the blockchain, none of this would happen /s

Re: Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe

#183

Post by willstrafach » Sat, Jun 02, 2018, 5:15 PM UTC

expiredtofu wrote: post #171

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit card interest payments go to the bank. Visa/MasterCard don’t get any of that.

I thought the bank was the one that provided the fraud protection, customer service, etc.

Fraud protection is not really “provided” by anyone, it is simply a reversal of the charge, leaving the affected merchant holding the bag.

Re: Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe

#184

Post by willstrafach » Sat, Jun 02, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

bradknowles wrote: post #172

cf498 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The "pay off balance within the month grace period" works only if you are on top of it all the time. If you think about how many people using the "maxed out CC" as a loan because they cant get anything else, the financial model looks rather sound. The interest rate on those things is drastic if you are no longer in the grace period, and its an easy trap to fall into, especially if you are falling on bad times or are…

Correct. If you pay off your card every month, the credit card companies consider you to be a bad investment, and they even have names to describe customers like you -- "deadbeat", among others.

I doubt that. Card companies surely make good money on interest, but there is risk baked into that.

A customer paying off their full balance means little risk yet they still make the 1-3% processing fee.

Re: Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe

#185

Post by Silhouette » Sat, Jun 02, 2018, 6:58 PM UTC

PenguinCoder wrote: post #181

Silhouette wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those two aren't the only options, though. Many other electronic payment methods exist that are better than credit cards in almost every way.

Which payment methods are readily available to consumers and business owners that is 'better than credit cards in almost every way'?

That depends on where you are. In Europe, electronic payments directly from bank accounts or using various types of card that debit directly are much more reliable and have much lower fees, for example.

Re: Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe

#186

Post by madjam002 » Sat, Jun 02, 2018, 7:57 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #137

falcon620 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's not helpful, I'm afraid. Also demonstrably incorrect. Amex is still operating in the UK, for example.

There is precisely one issuer of non-Mastercard/Visa credit cards in the UK - Amex - and they're not accepted nearly as widely. There are exactly five banks which issue Mastercard debit cards rather than Visa - Virgin Money, Citibank, Clydesdale Bank, Yorkshire Bank, and Metro Bank - and none of them are particularly major players. (I think it was down to three or less at one point; Virgin and Citibank only switched…

Monzo and Transferwise both issue Mastercard debit cards

Re: Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe

#187

Post by joeseeder » Sat, Jun 02, 2018, 9:50 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #185

PenguinCoder wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which payment methods are readily available to consumers and business owners that is 'better than credit cards in almost every way'?

That depends on where you are. In Europe, electronic payments directly from bank accounts or using various types of card that debit directly are much more reliable and have much lower fees, for example.

Can you imagine the queue forming in the morning at the coffee place, where someone is trying to pay them with a bank transfer... ? Just typing in the IBAN Takes ages.. Card/Phone Contactless payments are super fast and efficient.

Re: Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe

#188

Post by blensor » Sat, Jun 02, 2018, 10:06 PM UTC

thesimon wrote: post #117

blensor wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for SEPA ICT. Once that's rolled out everywhere it is really going to challenge the established online payment systems in Europe. Last time I bought something in an Austrian online shop it offered me the "eps" option which redirected me to my own onlinebanking portal after logging in the payment had only to be confrirmed with a tan and the payment confirmation from the vendor was instant. Basically the same flow a…

>Once that's rolled out everywhere it is really going to challenge the established online payment systems in Europe Disagree. Most of the German banks that have just announced SEPA Instant are charging 0.50€-2€/transaction. No way the retailers will manage to convince the customers to pay that. I think PSD2 with the Bank Account API (think Klarna/SOFORT) is the bigger challenger.

Oh. I did not know that. I assumed that all SEPA transactions below 15000€ will be carried out as ICT if both banks support it. Well it seems they found a way to screw us over with another random fee

Re: Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe

#189

Post by Silhouette » Sat, Jun 02, 2018, 11:14 PM UTC

joeseeder wrote: post #187

Silhouette wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on where you are. In Europe, electronic payments directly from bank accounts or using various types of card that debit directly are much more reliable and have much lower fees, for example.

Can you imagine the queue forming in the morning at the coffee place, where someone is trying to pay them with a bank transfer... ? Just typing in the IBAN Takes ages.. Card/Phone Contactless payments are super fast and efficient.

But you don't make a bank transfer in that environment. I can make a contactless payment with my bank's debit card, and it comes straight from my bank account. Many people here in the UK do this routinely for minor purchases, and the technology has been available for several years now. As you say, it's fast and efficient.

Re: Visa card network crashes, causing increased decline rates across UK and Europe

#190

Post by wil421 » Sun, Jun 03, 2018, 7:53 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #145

thesimon wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends what you are optimizing for. Groceries is a quite big expense part for me, so REWE, Aldi and tegut in Germany are quite good for earning. Other expenses are traveling, where basically everyone accepts Amex. Starbucks accepts is as well, quite a lot of McDonalds and most fashion retailers as well. You probably can't survive on Amex alone, but at least in Germany there is a quite big chunk that you c…

Interesting, sounds like it is more widely accepted than I thought after all.

Small tip from a coworker in Europe, Amex has an website you can you to find places around you.

www.amexvicinity.com