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Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

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Re: Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

#31

Post by reitzensteinm »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #30

I was stunned that my last submission, that the gog.com shutdown was a marketing ploy, received 0 upvotes. It was the latest development in the story that was voted #1 just two days prior: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1717426 It appears they're actually back now, so I've submitted it again: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1721598

I take it from the downvote and lack of general interest that the problem isn't that nobody saw it, it's that people genuinely didn't care. I'm surprised, but I stand corrected.

Re: Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

#32

Post by amirmc »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #5

I think it's a function of there being too many items submitted every day, and not enough people checking the "new" page. During busy times of the day, if you don't get 5-10 votes within the first 10-15 mins, you're on the 2nd page of the "new" posts area, and you're never going to make it. I'm afraid the end result is that the only posts that will end up on the front-page are: 1. Where the author (domain) is well-kn…

In some cases, the timing of the submission also matters.

e.g I've posted a few interesting articles that dropped off the new page

Re: Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

#33

Post by frossie »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #5

I think it's a function of there being too many items submitted every day, and not enough people checking the "new" page. During busy times of the day, if you don't get 5-10 votes within the first 10-15 mins, you're on the 2nd page of the "new" posts area, and you're never going to make it. I'm afraid the end result is that the only posts that will end up on the front-page are: 1. Where the author (domain) is well-kn…

I am really curious as to the answer to this question:

Of the stories that got more than 10 votes, how many of those (first) 10 votes came from upvotes as opposed to multiple submission.

My theory is that it frequently takes multiple submissions to get stuff in the front page so that it can be upvoted, rather than through upvotes from New. In which case the best story in the world might not do well if only one person finds it.

Re: Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

#34

Post by eneveu »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #31
reitzensteinm wrote: post #30

I was stunned that my last submission, that the gog.com shutdown was a marketing ploy, received 0 upvotes. It was the latest development in the story that was voted #1 just two days prior: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1717426 It appears they're actually back now, so I've submitted it again: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1721598

I take it from the downvote and lack of general interest that the problem isn't that nobody saw it, it's that people genuinely didn't care. I'm surprised, but I stand corrected.

Well... You simply linked to their front page.

This submission got more interest: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1717172

I think such an article generates more interest because it puts everything in context, and explains GOG's strategy / hoax.

Re: Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

#35

Post by 10ren »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #5

I think it's a function of there being too many items submitted every day, and not enough people checking the "new" page. During busy times of the day, if you don't get 5-10 votes within the first 10-15 mins, you're on the 2nd page of the "new" posts area, and you're never going to make it. I'm afraid the end result is that the only posts that will end up on the front-page are: 1. Where the author (domain) is well-kn…

Another approach is to prevent these - which is how pg seems to describe his role at HN these days, at least for (3) gaming the system - leaving the field clear for the good stories. The flag link often takes care of (2) link-bait (though most people complain rather than click it). Well-known (3) author/domain probably isn't too bad, if the brand is justified, and even seems to be countered at times, eg. Seth Godin doesn't come up much anymore.

The big problem I see is industry gossip, within which I include: the crunchpad drama; iPhone/iPad dramas; Zuckerman's integrity; Bill Gates' integrity; Steve Jobs' integrity; Larry Ellison's integrity; today's psychoanalysis of one of our own members; even the Ring of Dark Angels/AngelGate. Now, industry gossip is relevant to people in the industry. But it's not Hacker News (at least, not according to the guidelines.)

If there is a clear perception of what HN is, and enough people resolve to flag stories that don't fit that perception, then this problem goes away. We deserve the HN we get.

Re: Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

#36

Post by doki_pen »

I know a lot of users use Google Reader and don't see the articles until they are a little stale. They still will up vote good articles. Perhaps the algorithm could be tweaked to make time less important then it is currently. I'm not sure how you could do that though..

Re: Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

#37

Post by reitzensteinm »

eneveu wrote: post #34
reitzensteinm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it from the downvote and lack of general interest that the problem isn't that nobody saw it, it's that people genuinely didn't care. I'm surprised, but I stand corrected.

Well... You simply linked to their front page. This submission got more interest: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1717172 I think such an article generates more interest because it puts everything in context, and explains GOG's strategy / hoax.

Thanks for the link - it puzzled me because I didn't realise the story had already done the rounds, and search didn't turn anything up. Makes total sense now.

The front page at the time had a post discussing what had happened - now it just links to the main site.

Re: Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

#38

Post by JangoSteve »

mhb wrote: post #27
JangoSteve wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another obvious cause of submissions falling too quickly off the "new" posts page is that there is only room for the latest 30 posts. Seems like we could fit another 3-5 posts on the "new" page if we removed the posts that have already hit the front page. Of course, this is only a minor band-aid that doesn't solve the root problems, as you pointed out.

Getting dead ones off the page would yield another few.

You can set "showdead" to false in your profile.

Re: Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

#39

Post by 3pt14159 »

Submissions should cost karma. Dynamically change the karma cost based on the time of day or expected number of visits. In theory good posts would be a net win for your karma and people would stop spamming the new section with useless articles.

Re: Ask HN: Many quality articles don't go to the front page. What is the problem?

#40

Post by njharman »

marilyn wrote: post #15

I believe a flip side to this is that stories are staying on the front page longer. Not too long ago I recall that each day I opened HN for the first time, every story on the front page was brand new to me. Recently stories seem to stay on the front page for 2-3 days sometimes.

> stories seem to stay on the front page for 2-3 days sometimes

That is far too long. I'd like the front page to churn twice a day so it was all new in the "morning" and all new in the "afternoon".

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