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Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

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Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#131

Post by cryptoz »

Const-me wrote: post #120
cryptoz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US certainly isn't 100% trustworthy. The US is the most wildly insane, two-faced and upside-down country in the world right now in terms of military. The commander-in-chief routinely makes nuclear threats, actively hurts his own citizens in times of need, and seeks to decrease military stability by accelerating climate change and isolating his country from the world. The commander-in-chief lies about every sing…

I live in Montenegro, which was a part of Yugoslavia. When Yugoslavia started to break apart the wars started. The wars lasted for almost 10 years, from 1991 to 1999. American military intervention is the main reason why the wars stopped. For the last 18 years it’s now peace. I’m an immigrant here so I did not participated in these wars. But I asked locals who did, “do you think the wars would stop unless Americans i…

The US military of the 1990s was a very different organization than it is today. Pretending we have the same solid military leadership right now as we did then is dangerous.

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#132

Post by ajross »

sitkack wrote: post #115
ajross wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where I am too. I mean, war stuff is bad, it kills people, and the US certainly isn't 100% trustworthy. At the same time... there's a real don't-rock-the-boat problem here. The last 3/4 of a century of US military dominance has been notable for a decrease in military/para-military violence on an order that humanity literally has never seen. It's not zero for sure, it's not always just, we may not always be the…

> if you are a random person anywhere in the world, you are vastly less likely to be killed by someone's bullet than you were pre-WW2. You are spouting unsubstantiated nonsense.

Just google it. This isn't even a controversial position, LOTS of folks in academic history love to point this out. Here's a quick slide show about exactly this effect:

https://ourworldindata.org/slides/war-and-violence/#/title-s...

See page 6 for a charge that shows exactly the fact I was citing, though the data as a whole is much broader and worth reading.

So now I'm "substantiated", I guess. You have numbers showing the opposite effect?

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#133

Post by r00fus »

roenxi wrote: post #99
C50VGicCxmHC wrote: post #21

This will really hurt their enterprise cloud business. Google has shown to have a bunch of employees who will leak confidential discussions to the press and try to PR damage their employer. If you are a large company looking for a home, that is exactly the kind of environment you want to avoid. In addition, many of the large US companies have a military component. Examples are GE, Boeing, United Technologies. How man…

This must be quite terrifying for Google the corporation, which is now sandwiched between its own employees and its own government. The story that has been spun this year has been that Google tacitly accepts politics in the workplace. They might come to regret that.

The corporation has no feelings. Please don't anthropomorphize. Did you mean the people who run the organization like Pichai or Alphabets leadership (Page)?

Why would it terrify them?

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#134

Post by rixrax »

aregsar wrote: post #24

While there are good intentions here, what happens if China and Russia military get ahead of US military in this technology due to us limiting ourselves

I wonder if Google will conduct a thorough internal investigation on the leak and on the internal opposition to this project? I would hate not to know if it indeed was fueled by non-US citizens from China, Russia and other countries with potentially nefarious intentions to raise the already left leaning 'general population' of their employee base to oppose our national interests (which Google as a US company rightfully should support).

Throwaway account (don't want my meager karma to be down voted to oblivion for speaking my mind).

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#136

Post by jacksmith21006 »

cmroanirgo wrote: post #126
jacksmith21006 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think if we look at actual actions of Google we can see they already had a conscious. I assume what "conscience" was intended? Perfect example is China. The government was trying to hack in Gmail account and Google decided to leave China even though a ton of money to be made. Versus Apple handed over all their user data to the government with a complete disregard for privacy to make a buck. "Campaign targets Apple ov…

I think there's a large difference between Google leaving china due to hacking vs working as a U.S. defense contractor. A lot of people look at Google as something more than just a U.S based company and is considered as more of an international company in this regard. So, when Google's parent company decides to align heavily with U.S military, then of course people working in Google, who come from all parts of the gl…

All comes down to doing what is right or what makes you more money.

Google staying in China would have made them a ton more money but giving up user data to the government was not acceptable for them.

It was for Apple and making a buck.

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#137

Post by AndrewKemendo »

cryptoz wrote: post #131
Const-me wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Montenegro, which was a part of Yugoslavia. When Yugoslavia started to break apart the wars started. The wars lasted for almost 10 years, from 1991 to 1999. American military intervention is the main reason why the wars stopped. For the last 18 years it’s now peace. I’m an immigrant here so I did not participated in these wars. But I asked locals who did, “do you think the wars would stop unless Americans i…

The US military of the 1990s was a very different organization than it is today. Pretending we have the same solid military leadership right now as we did then is dangerous.

James Mattis, the current Secretary of Defense, was an Military assistant to the Deputy Secretary of Defense during Kosovo. So literally the same person from the 90s is in a key leadership position now in the Military.

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#139

Post by lawrenceyan »

C50VGicCxmHC wrote: post #21

This will really hurt their enterprise cloud business. Google has shown to have a bunch of employees who will leak confidential discussions to the press and try to PR damage their employer. If you are a large company looking for a home, that is exactly the kind of environment you want to avoid. In addition, many of the large US companies have a military component. Examples are GE, Boeing, United Technologies. How man…

You hurt the credibility and strength of your statements by hiding behind a throwaway account. Doing so also brings into question if you have any ulterior motives.

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#140

Post by iamforreal »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #121
droopyEyelids wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's not just the reputation of drones, it's taking another step towards autonomous killing machines. Robots probably wouldn't be as bad, but the other autonomous killing machines we have are pathogens, and all countries have pretty much decided it's counterproductive to develop pathogens for warfare at this point

My understanding was that pathogens are frowned upon because of their mutability. There is a high risk that you end up killing people you weren't targeting...namely your own citizens after your bioweapon mutates into something you don't possess a cure for. This is not the same problem posed by AI sorting of imagery (Maven) or armed UAVs in general.

It's a lower risk but it could still happen. There's been plenty of embarrassing occasions in the last few years where automation has failed to account for black people -- facial detection and automatic door openers are two off the top of my head

Also, with automated offense, a lot of people may die in short order if you encounter a systemic failure in your targeting + execution

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