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Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

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Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#111

Post by C50VGicCxmHC »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #41
simion314 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was different then regular military projects because of drones, drones have a terrible reputation.

And it's not just the reputation of drones, it's taking another step towards autonomous killing machines. Robots probably wouldn't be as bad, but the other autonomous killing machines we have are pathogens, and all countries have pretty much decided it's counterproductive to develop pathogens for warfare at this point

We already have something very close to automated killing machines: anti-aircraft missiles. Couples with radar systems they can identify hostile and go and destroy them pretty much without human guidance

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#112

Post by tpolzer »

C50VGicCxmHC wrote: post #21

This will really hurt their enterprise cloud business. Google has shown to have a bunch of employees who will leak confidential discussions to the press and try to PR damage their employer. If you are a large company looking for a home, that is exactly the kind of environment you want to avoid. In addition, many of the large US companies have a military component. Examples are GE, Boeing, United Technologies. How man…

In a surprising move, the stock price disagrees with you.

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#113

Post by sitkack »

C50VGicCxmHC wrote: post #21

This will really hurt their enterprise cloud business. Google has shown to have a bunch of employees who will leak confidential discussions to the press and try to PR damage their employer. If you are a large company looking for a home, that is exactly the kind of environment you want to avoid. In addition, many of the large US companies have a military component. Examples are GE, Boeing, United Technologies. How man…

> If you are a large company looking for a home, that is exactly the kind of environment you want to avoid.

You are green either created the account to shield your normal one, or you don't post here.

This is actually excellent news for companies with nothing to hide. And for companies with something resembling a moral compass.

Your comment is extrapolation hyperbole and paints a dichotomy that either the corp is control or the employees are in control when in actuality, it is a vast collection of individuals and groups.

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#114

Post by sitkack »

C50VGicCxmHC wrote: post #111
droopyEyelids wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's not just the reputation of drones, it's taking another step towards autonomous killing machines. Robots probably wouldn't be as bad, but the other autonomous killing machines we have are pathogens, and all countries have pretty much decided it's counterproductive to develop pathogens for warfare at this point

We already have something very close to automated killing machines: anti-aircraft missiles. Couples with radar systems they can identify hostile and go and destroy them pretty much without human guidance

The chilling aspect of drone assassinations in terms of automation is that people and subsequently devalued collateral damage is detected, ranked and classified with statistical techniques, as if regression to the mean will bring back that wedding party that just got turned into a pile of limbs with a hellfire missile.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security-attacks/tw...

Better in this context means more bombs on foreheads.

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#115

Post by sitkack »

ajross wrote: post #27
aregsar wrote: post #24

While there are good intentions here, what happens if China and Russia military get ahead of US military in this technology due to us limiting ourselves

That's where I am too. I mean, war stuff is bad, it kills people, and the US certainly isn't 100% trustworthy. At the same time... there's a real don't-rock-the-boat problem here. The last 3/4 of a century of US military dominance has been notable for a decrease in military/para-military violence on an order that humanity literally has never seen. It's not zero for sure, it's not always just, we may not always be the…

> if you are a random person anywhere in the world, you are vastly less likely to be killed by someone's bullet than you were pre-WW2.

You are spouting unsubstantiated nonsense.

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#116

Post by sitkack »

dfsegoat wrote: post #86
jdashg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an ethical approach to making drones better at killing people?

Yes according to the Red Cross, and experts in International Human Law (aka The Rules of War) - there is an obligation for people to develop these systems (or not) responsibly and TO ALWAYS KEEP A HUMAN IN THE LOOP [1]. Note Nov 2017 was the first annual meeting: the law on this is literally being determined on the fly, so simply running from it rather than providing input and working to determine limits isn't very h…

That has nothing to do ML and the statistical targeting of people based on behavior.

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#117

Post by rumcajz »

C50VGicCxmHC wrote: post #21

This will really hurt their enterprise cloud business. Google has shown to have a bunch of employees who will leak confidential discussions to the press and try to PR damage their employer. If you are a large company looking for a home, that is exactly the kind of environment you want to avoid. In addition, many of the large US companies have a military component. Examples are GE, Boeing, United Technologies. How man…

On the other hand, you could think of it as a moral-compass-as-a-service thing. If you are running on Google cloud, it would be a strong signal that you don't do questionable work for military.

That may seem as something that's not worth too much, but on the other hand there's a lot of popular opposition to this kind of thing and companies are starting to notice. Consider this: https://www.dontbankonthebomb.com/new-deutsche-bank-policy-e...

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#118

Post by RaceWon »

squarefoot wrote: post #95
kinsomo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we reduce everything to being ahead of a potential enemy, then we soon get to a point where the solution of all problems is a single deadly upfront attack. > Those technologies aren't for defense; Have you ever heard of Mutually Assured Destruction? Basically the idea is having "credible deterrent" actually prevents the use of the weapons, because the side that makes a "single deadly upfront attack" will lose al…

Does this apply only to superpowers over a certain level of military strength? Otherwise one could wonder why Mexico or Canada which have no comparable military power to the US hasn't been invaded yet. I agree in principle that mutual assure destruction can be indeed a valid deterrent, though I hardly believe there aren't others in a civilized world. To me also there's not that much difference between mutual assured…

> Otherwise one could wonder why Mexico or Canada which have no comparable military power to the US hasn't been invaded yet.

The USA would never permit them to be invaded. We'd go to an all out war before we'd let a next-door neighbor fall to another country, and every nation knows this.

> though I hardly believe there aren't others in a civilized world.

Where is this civilized World of which you speak? I, sadly, see that the Globe is on fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflict...

Of course war is a business, no question about that; however the world is a dangerous place, and humans are arguably the most unpredictable mammals alive.

Re: Google Won't Renew Contract for Project Maven, Pentagon Drone AI Imaging Program

#120

Post by Const-me »

cryptoz wrote: post #43
ajross wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where I am too. I mean, war stuff is bad, it kills people, and the US certainly isn't 100% trustworthy. At the same time... there's a real don't-rock-the-boat problem here. The last 3/4 of a century of US military dominance has been notable for a decrease in military/para-military violence on an order that humanity literally has never seen. It's not zero for sure, it's not always just, we may not always be the…

> the US certainly isn't 100% trustworthy. The US is the most wildly insane, two-faced and upside-down country in the world right now in terms of military. The commander-in-chief routinely makes nuclear threats, actively hurts his own citizens in times of need, and seeks to decrease military stability by accelerating climate change and isolating his country from the world. The commander-in-chief lies about every sing…

I live in Montenegro, which was a part of Yugoslavia. When Yugoslavia started to break apart the wars started. The wars lasted for almost 10 years, from 1991 to 1999.

American military intervention is the main reason why the wars stopped. For the last 18 years it’s now peace.

I’m an immigrant here so I did not participated in these wars. But I asked locals who did, “do you think the wars would stop unless Americans intervened?” The answer is usually “no, I think we would be still killing each other to this day.”

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