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A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

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Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#31

Post by seibelj »

wvenable wrote: post #19
seibelj wrote: post #14

It amazes me when people think the government should be the go-to solution to society's problems. The government can indeed be used for good, and it has solved many problems, and regulations can be a good thing. But government should be applied very carefully, and probably as the last solution, after we see the failures of non-government solutions. The government is all powerful. They can destroy any business, destro…

The problem I have with this line of argument is that's used to excuse the government of these kinds of actions. Once you believe that government is simply incapable then you stop demanding that it becomes any better. Even what you describe, limiting the power of government, is a governmental solution. You simply have to elect people who want to make the system better rather than those who want to tear it down. It's…

As I stated in the opening of my post, the government is capable of good and exists for a reason. Regulations can be good. But people should recognize how much power the government has and see issues like civil asset forefeiture as an example of what can go wrong. I’m not saying the government cannot work. I’m saying that when it doesn’t work, the result can have an overwhelming negative impact, so we should be skeptical of government solutions.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#32

Post by woolvalley »

refurb wrote: post #24
3pt14159 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not last. Not first. Not all powerful. Not feckless. Americans act like their government is representative of governments. It isn't. They act like everything needs to be invented there. It doesn't. They believe that America is the greatest country in the world. It isn't. If people in America just stopped to look around at how other countries do things they'd be doubly as well run. Most parts of Europe, Japan, Canada,…

OK, I get it, the US being a superpower is under a microscope and every imperfection is called out so other countries can look down their nose at it. That's fine. But what are you talking about? What could the US learn from Canada on asset forfeiture? Canada does it too! How to do it better? And as a Canadian, saying the gov't run their is better is purely laughable.

Go live in the USA, and you'll see the multiple ways it's more broken than Canada. Many other friends who have moved over from other developed countries collaborate the experience.

I'm in the bay area, maybe it's just a special kind of broken that you don't see in other places in the USA, but things like flint, michigan also exist in the USA.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#33

Post by platinumrad »

martin1975 wrote: post #28
rootsudo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, most forfeiture is not returned to the victim. Because it's not innocent until declared guilty, it's guilty until declared innocent. Forfeiture does not follow human vs USA. It's 56,000 $ VS USA. At Airports you waive your right to search protection.

Sorry, that just doesn't make any sense. Take it to an extreme... if this can be done to anyone for no reason like you suggest - e.g. "he looks guilty, so I'll search/forfeit whatever funds I find" - then that's a major breakdown. Assuming you are correct- and I don't know - then even if that is the case, there has to be a way to get the money back however arduous or red-tape it may be, and eventually claim damages f…

The poster you're replying to is basically correct about how civil asset forfeiture works in the US. If you search, there are plenty of articles about similar cases.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#34

Post by refurb »

woolvalley wrote: post #32
refurb wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I get it, the US being a superpower is under a microscope and every imperfection is called out so other countries can look down their nose at it. That's fine. But what are you talking about? What could the US learn from Canada on asset forfeiture? Canada does it too! How to do it better? And as a Canadian, saying the gov't run their is better is purely laughable.

Go live in the USA, and you'll see the multiple ways it's more broken than Canada. Many other friends who have moved over from other developed countries collaborate the experience. I'm in the bay area, maybe it's just a special kind of broken that you don't see in other places in the USA, but things like flint, michigan also exist in the USA.

I do live in the US. And you know what? I think there is plenty the US has to offer that Canada doesn't. That's why I'm here.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#35

Post by jfk92n8 »

seibelj wrote: post #14

It amazes me when people think the government should be the go-to solution to society's problems. The government can indeed be used for good, and it has solved many problems, and regulations can be a good thing. But government should be applied very carefully, and probably as the last solution, after we see the failures of non-government solutions. The government is all powerful. They can destroy any business, destro…

Government is made up of people

If a person in a government position does a shitty thing, hold them accountable

It’s no different than at a job where you “abdicate” certain utilitarian responsibilities to others.

What’s really broken is checks and balances

They’re outdated for modern life

Talking about government as if it is a real thing like a car is silly

Define the roles and privileges and shut down violations

But of course the public in America has been convinced it’s some ephemeral monster come to eat their babies when the big corps and employers that also fuck us are our saviors with “jobs”

It’s a twisted psychosis I’ll never understand

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#36

Post by SpuriousSignals »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #17

Here's something that gets me... A lot of Second Amendment advocates say we need the right to bear arms to protect ourselves from a tyrannical government. Well...here's your tyranny. Now where's that armed uprising?

"... all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_I...

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#37

Post by ironchef »

refurb wrote: post #24
3pt14159 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not last. Not first. Not all powerful. Not feckless. Americans act like their government is representative of governments. It isn't. They act like everything needs to be invented there. It doesn't. They believe that America is the greatest country in the world. It isn't. If people in America just stopped to look around at how other countries do things they'd be doubly as well run. Most parts of Europe, Japan, Canada,…

OK, I get it, the US being a superpower is under a microscope and every imperfection is called out so other countries can look down their nose at it. That's fine. But what are you talking about? What could the US learn from Canada on asset forfeiture? Canada does it too! How to do it better? And as a Canadian, saying the gov't run their is better is purely laughable.

what I inferred from the other post was that governments are complex... and each government has some things they do well.. and some things they do poorly (not necessarily just re: asset forfeiture). For example one could argue that the US could look at other governments to see alternatives for how to manage healthcare differently (or perhaps even just portions of it)

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#38

Post by jboles »

refurb wrote: post #29
orf wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thousand times this. I'm not saying the UK is some shining beacon of how to run a country but I do think overall our governmental systems are pretty sensible . I think being sensible might be a stereotypical English trait, but it's true. For example you have to comply with the spirit of a law, not the exact text. Also our QC's are pretty level headed and the same goes for our police force. Nobody is overly nitpicky…

You mean like arresting people when they say something the gov't doesn't like? [1] I'll take a pass, thank you. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-...

I'll gladly take that, and a government that generally tries to look after its citizens, over one that is downright hostile to and steals from citizens.

Re: A 64-year-old put his life savings in his carry-on, and U.S. Customs took it

#40

Post by martin1975 »

platinumrad wrote: post #33
martin1975 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, that just doesn't make any sense. Take it to an extreme... if this can be done to anyone for no reason like you suggest - e.g. "he looks guilty, so I'll search/forfeit whatever funds I find" - then that's a major breakdown. Assuming you are correct- and I don't know - then even if that is the case, there has to be a way to get the money back however arduous or red-tape it may be, and eventually claim damages f…

The poster you're replying to is basically correct about how civil asset forfeiture works in the US. If you search, there are plenty of articles about similar cases.

If there's truth to it, without understanding the govt's rationale about this, it looks about as un-American and un-capitalistic as it gets.... goes against the grain of who we are as a country.
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