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Flattr now deletes your web browsing history within 3 months

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Re: Flattr now deletes your web browsing history within 3 months

#31

Post by maxxxxx »

nebulous1 wrote: post #25
maxxxxx wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can calculate the numbers as soon as the data about visits come in and then immediately discard all data. You certainly don't need to store the browsing history. You need the payment amount though and even that you can discard after a month. I am going through this at work right now where we are working data collection about a medical device. First we wanted to suck up all data and figure out what to do with it l…

You will need their relevant browsing history for the entire payment period

OK. Then throw it away after that.

Re: Flattr now deletes your web browsing history within 3 months

#32

Post by AnthonyMouse »

I feel like this whole thing with the GDPR is people fighting each other for the wrong reasons.

The people for it argue that gets large companies to behave better.

The people against it argue that it's unnecessarily complicated, poorly drafted and burdensome to small businesses.

But it's both at the same time.

The issue is that it doesn't have to be. It's possible to get the desired effect without using such a complicated system, and to mitigate the impact it imposes.

For example, one of the major burdens on small businesses is the cost of producing the data the company has on you -- but there is a simple way to fix that. Require the requester to pay the cost of collecting the information, similar to FOIA requests in the US. Then the requirement is no longer an unfunded mandate and can't be used by griefers as a method of harassment.

Nobody bothered to use common sense like that when drafting it, so now in order to fix it, it has to be thrown out and rewritten. But then the people who support the spirit of the law end up fighting against the people who oppose the letter of the law, even though everybody really wants the same thing.

Re: Flattr now deletes your web browsing history within 3 months

#34

Post by Tomte »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #32

I feel like this whole thing with the GDPR is people fighting each other for the wrong reasons. The people for it argue that gets large companies to behave better. The people against it argue that it's unnecessarily complicated, poorly drafted and burdensome to small businesses. But it's both at the same time . The issue is that it doesn't have to be. It's possible to get the desired effect without using such a compl…

Your proposed solution gives companies zero incentive to minimize data collected, and even incentivizes them to make fulfilling such a request as convoluted and expensive as possible.

What people online love to call "common sense solutions" are usually not solutions a all.

Re: Flattr now deletes your web browsing history within 3 months

#35

Post by giancarlostoro »

amelius wrote: post #29
giancarlostoro wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder what will happen if the US passes laws enforcing companies to retain data for up to a year minimum for digital forensic integrity reasons of cyber criminal cases. Also maybe on the other hand GDPR is good for VPN services to be much more transparent.

I suspect there will simply be a direct pipe for logging to the government, where companies don't need to retain anything.

GDPR requires you to make that kind of information available.

Re: Flattr now deletes your web browsing history within 3 months

#36

Post by DangerousPie »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #32

I feel like this whole thing with the GDPR is people fighting each other for the wrong reasons. The people for it argue that gets large companies to behave better. The people against it argue that it's unnecessarily complicated, poorly drafted and burdensome to small businesses. But it's both at the same time . The issue is that it doesn't have to be. It's possible to get the desired effect without using such a compl…

I'm not so sure - how do you make sure the cost isn't so high that it deters people with legitimate reasons to request their data, but also high enough to actually cover the cost of obtaining it? I would expect that those are two very different amounts.

Re: Flattr now deletes your web browsing history within 3 months

#37

Post by zhte415 »

diafygi wrote: post #13

I love how some of the tech industry is beginning to see data as a liability rather than an asset. It dramatically reduces the ability for government mass surveillance for two reasons: 1. If companies only collect what they need (to reduce their liability), governments can't demand more than that (or even hack in to get the data illegally). 2. If the industry culture is to limit data collection, governments can't jus…

When young in my career, which was finance/banking, my 'Head' (as was the organisational naming structure) sent an email re-forwarding and re-emphasining data retention policy.

I was inclined to never delete an email rather than comply with 'your inbox should not exceed 500MB'. That was 50 emails a day then, my inbox now exceeds 500MB on a daily basis.

Sure, you can save archive locally or on a shared drive.

But the key idea... we don't want customer data because of liability. If we're storing it for a specific purpose, be that regulatory reporting or clearly defined analytics, fine.

Before the term 'big data', simply 'lots of data' sounded nice.

But don't let it hang around. At some point it will be a liability. You're serving customers. The key part of this is keeping their data safe. Not having it anymore (or having it in an non-accessible lock-away auto-delete repisitory for legal purposes) is more than good enough, to properly store and manage it is what's better.

Re: Flattr now deletes your web browsing history within 3 months

#38

Post by d4l3k »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #32

I feel like this whole thing with the GDPR is people fighting each other for the wrong reasons. The people for it argue that gets large companies to behave better. The people against it argue that it's unnecessarily complicated, poorly drafted and burdensome to small businesses. But it's both at the same time . The issue is that it doesn't have to be. It's possible to get the desired effect without using such a compl…

"cost of producing the data" seems really hard to strictly define. What's stopping a company from implementing extremely tedious procedures and billing $100 an hour to discourage people from requesting it?

In addition, GPDR says that getting access to data on you is a right and it seems contradictory to have to pay for something that is your right to have.

Re: Flattr now deletes your web browsing history within 3 months

#39

Post by [deleted] »

diafygi wrote: post #13

I love how some of the tech industry is beginning to see data as a liability rather than an asset. It dramatically reduces the ability for government mass surveillance for two reasons: 1. If companies only collect what they need (to reduce their liability), governments can't demand more than that (or even hack in to get the data illegally). 2. If the industry culture is to limit data collection, governments can't jus…

[deleted]

Re: Flattr now deletes your web browsing history within 3 months

#40

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Tomte wrote: post #34
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #32

I feel like this whole thing with the GDPR is people fighting each other for the wrong reasons. The people for it argue that gets large companies to behave better. The people against it argue that it's unnecessarily complicated, poorly drafted and burdensome to small businesses. But it's both at the same time . The issue is that it doesn't have to be. It's possible to get the desired effect without using such a compl…

Your proposed solution gives companies zero incentive to minimize data collected, and even incentivizes them to make fulfilling such a request as convoluted and expensive as possible. What people online love to call "common sense solutions" are usually not solutions a all.

> Your proposed solution gives companies zero incentive to minimize data collected

The expense of producing the data isn't supposed to be an incentive to minimize data collected, that is what the other sections are for. For large companies it wouldn't be regardless because they could automate the process.

> and even incentivizes them to make fulfilling such a request as convoluted and expensive as possible.

A company charging outrageous prices would obviously invite investigative scrutiny.

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