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Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

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Re: Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

#51

Post by BooneJS »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #34
rudolfwinestock wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cursor stays in the viewport because, deep down, Emacs still thinks that it's outputting to a 1970s-era ASCII terminal. See this https://www.facebook.com/notes/daniel-colascione/buttery-smo... “Internally, Emacs still belives it’s a text program, and we pretend Xt is a text terminal, and we pretend GTK is an Xt toolkit. It’s a fractal of delusion.” For years, James Gosling, author of the first version of Emacs th…

For me as a daily Emacs user this sounds like another "editor war" rant. I neither find Emacs hard to customize nor do I think it has any substantial limitations other than the ones that are based on my own lack of knowledge. It's always fair to compare it to Vim, but I don't think it makes much sense to compare it in general to VS Code or Atom. One major reason for me to use Emacs and not newer software is that it i…

Emacs is compared to vim because both can be run in a terminal on a remote machine, not because it’s the JS-editor-of-the-month. There’s a fairly decent chance I’d switch away from vim if I ever had a job where I could edit code locally.

Re: Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

#52

Post by oblio »

BooneJS wrote: post #51
jonathanstrange wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me as a daily Emacs user this sounds like another "editor war" rant. I neither find Emacs hard to customize nor do I think it has any substantial limitations other than the ones that are based on my own lack of knowledge. It's always fair to compare it to Vim, but I don't think it makes much sense to compare it in general to VS Code or Atom. One major reason for me to use Emacs and not newer software is that it i…

Emacs is compared to vim because both can be run in a terminal on a remote machine, not because it’s the JS-editor-of-the-month. There’s a fairly decent chance I’d switch away from vim if I ever had a job where I could edit code locally.

I see this occasionally. Why can't you edit locally?

Re: Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

#53

Post by oblio »

anamoulous wrote: post #47
rudolfwinestock wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cursor stays in the viewport because, deep down, Emacs still thinks that it's outputting to a 1970s-era ASCII terminal. See this https://www.facebook.com/notes/daniel-colascione/buttery-smo... “Internally, Emacs still belives it’s a text program, and we pretend Xt is a text terminal, and we pretend GTK is an Xt toolkit. It’s a fractal of delusion.” For years, James Gosling, author of the first version of Emacs th…

vscode can only be customized by an extension. There's a bunch of one off plugins you have to install to get little bits of functionality that you can get by pasting 15 lines of elisp from the emacs wiki. If no one has built that extension yet, you have to learn to build one yourself. You could always create private "personal" extension and keep it local, but that workflow is tedious. I'm not saying vscode is less ex…

The upside for anything like this is that the barrier to entry being higher, the people who do this tend to create higher quality things overall and maybe even share them.

It's not my idea, it's the premise from

http://winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html

Re: Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

#54

Post by hydandata »

rusk wrote: post #21

Here's what grinds my gears: That the cursor follows the visible buffer. It would be nice to be able to scroll to another part of a file and then just start typing and be back where I was ... I mean I could understand if this was an efficiency thing to do with scaling to large files due to a kind of a tiling memory model or something, but emacs doesn't even do that! It's not a huge deal I've learned to get used to us…

Not your desired behavior precisely, but Emacs does support recursive edits https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/RecursiveEditPreservingWindo...

Re: Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

#55

Post by LukeShu »

nerdponx wrote: post #46
todd8 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The undo system is confusing if you are accustomed to undo/redo in practically every other piece of software, but it does make sense (in its own kind of way). See the documentation for the undo commmand[1]. Emacs undo is powerful albeit with more cognitive load to use. I have occasionally had to take over the controls for new emacs users while pair programming because the undo, while logical and consistent, doesn’t w…

Vim also has an undo tree, but still manages to retain a sane user experience. Not that Vim is any paragon of UX design. The point is that you can have a powerful undo system without breaking user expectations.

> Vim also has an undo tree

There is an undo-tree implementation for Emacs (based off of Vim), but the default undo described above isn't an undo-tree.

Re: Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

#56

Post by BooneJS »

oblio wrote: post #52
BooneJS wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emacs is compared to vim because both can be run in a terminal on a remote machine, not because it’s the JS-editor-of-the-month. There’s a fairly decent chance I’d switch away from vim if I ever had a job where I could edit code locally.

I see this occasionally. Why can't you edit locally?

Sometimes it’s policy (no source code on laptops), but mostly it’s because my line of work uses the verilog language and the tool suites require “very stable” (read: archaic) versions of Linux.

Re: Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

#57

Post by FPGAhacker »

zaphar wrote: post #39
signal11 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also if you require good keybindings in the sample application, there's always viper :)

Evil mode is far far better than viper. Do yourself a favor and switch today.

To that end I like spacemacs. But it did incur enough of a startup penalty that have have shifted back to vim.

I oscillate between them and vscode. I don’t use vim bindings in vscode though.

Re: Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

#58

Post by oblio »

zeveb wrote: post #45
rudolfwinestock wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cursor stays in the viewport because, deep down, Emacs still thinks that it's outputting to a 1970s-era ASCII terminal. See this https://www.facebook.com/notes/daniel-colascione/buttery-smo... “Internally, Emacs still belives it’s a text program, and we pretend Xt is a text terminal, and we pretend GTK is an Xt toolkit. It’s a fractal of delusion.” For years, James Gosling, author of the first version of Emacs th…

> Emacs is in a race, not against Vim, but against VS Code and Atom for which editor can be more easily customized. In the long run, it doesn't look good for Emacs. Emacs is extensible in Lisp; VS Code & Atom are extensible in JavaScript. The point goes to emacs. Emacs has Magit, Org Mode, AucTeX, notmuch, gnus, ERC, emms, TRAMP, calc, calendar, Diary Mode — what do VS Code & Atom have? The point goes to emacs. Emacs…

VS Code can be extended in Typescript: https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/extensions/overview#_writ...

Philosophically Lisp may be superior, but I'm not sure it's so clear cut in real life.

Regarding most of the features you present, a good chunk of them aren't editing features and another chunk are related to running in a limited environment (the terminal). So a big part of them aren't as strong selling points as you seem to think they are, since many people don't care about them.

Re: Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

#59

Post by anamoulous »

oblio wrote: post #53
anamoulous wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vscode can only be customized by an extension. There's a bunch of one off plugins you have to install to get little bits of functionality that you can get by pasting 15 lines of elisp from the emacs wiki. If no one has built that extension yet, you have to learn to build one yourself. You could always create private "personal" extension and keep it local, but that workflow is tedious. I'm not saying vscode is less ex…

The upside for anything like this is that the barrier to entry being higher, the people who do this tend to create higher quality things overall and maybe even share them. It's not my idea, it's the premise from http://winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html

Have you looked at the VS Code marketplace? It is not great. The LSP modes are great and then here and there you get interesting extensions, but a bunch of it I would not call higher quality by any means.

(I use vscode all day for my work projects and generally enjoy it and am not trying to drag it, just trying to be honest about this aspect of it.)

Re: Emacs 26 Brings Generators and Threads

#60

Post by FPGAhacker »

VikingCoder wrote: post #48

I love the Emacs OS, but I'm just not thrilled with the editor that comes default with it. Has anyone ported Visual Studio Code to run on Emacs OS yet?

All jokes aside, is it the ui if vscode that you prefer? I have a hard time nailing it down, but aside from configuration, I do like vscode.

I might use it more if we weren’t stuck in an old version of rhel at work.

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