Earlier quoted context omitted.
This further reinforces the notion that the modern left has embraced essentialism, moralization, and Utopian ideology: * reducing people to (for example and more commonly than ever) ethnic and religious identities * turning every issue into a moral issue where decisions are separated into right and wrong with a distinct lack of nuance and thoughtful consideration * attacking those that don't share in your Utopian ide…
Very insightful comment, I suppose you represent the modern, alternative right movement then? This is a very big problem, you can't have bags like "the left" or "the right" because that's too general to represent any meaningful philosophy. As an example, many people would argue Clinton is left. I'd argue she's on the center right of the spectrum, if not further and would certainly not refer to her as left-wing in gen…
Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
381–390 of 527 posts
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, what’s the alternate option? If the US hadn’t been the “police” of the world. It could have been Russia or China or India, would we rather have had them? And don’t say Europe unless you consider France and the U.K. and others and their things. We don’t live on a vacuum. If you create one, someone will fill it. I am loath to think of how much worse things could be despite the idiotic wars of Obama and W., I thin…
Oh come on. The US established itself as 'the world police' and built 900+ military bases around the globe to protect its own financial interests at the point of a gun. Let's not pretend it does any of this shit out of altruism.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#383I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…
I think if we were currently fighting the 3rd Reich people might be more for it. But currently the USA has a massive military for no purpose, which is often used to conduct evil, and thus some people do not want to aid it.
It's also one of the US's largest employers.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#384Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
You were suggesting killing civilians, in order to may be get a 'bad guy', which amounts to a war crime.
and when you bomb a military base you are killing non-combatants. Cooks, mechanics, administrators, a completely un-associated postie or truck driver might be delivering a parcel or supplies to the base. These do not constitute war crimes but occupy this nebulous grey area named "collateral damage" at best and "war crimes" at worst. In this case we are assuming that several if not many enemy commanders are attending…
I'd argue that when you're the aggressor and are assisting a country that is one of the biggest human rights abusers on the planet, you do not get to claim moral superiority or any sort of gray area, you're just wrong and a war criminal, that's why I used the terminology.
I don't think the U.S. is in any position to judge how much someone's life is "worth", especially when not acting in self-defense, as in the case of Yemen, (or any recent U.S. intervention for that matter).
I can sort of see you point in the more general case, but in this case, where this drone would be used by the U.S. for illegal invasions, I can't.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#386I'd rather have more people working on the problem than fewer. More scrutiny should, at least, improve the work and reduce errors in the models (and, hopefully, that leads to fewer casualties)
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think that if part of Google's work were to make it more precise, would that be less evil?
If they could make sure they are killing only the guy they wanted, and act on that using pinpoint precision? Uh, actually, now that you mentioned it, that would be even more scary. That would be totally consequence free assassination device. At least the civilian casualties put some lid on the tendency to wantonly fly around in glorified RC planes murdering people. The way I see it, if you are intending to assassinat…
I completely agree with your last three paragraphs. But once again, none of that is specific to drones. It is true whether the trigger is pulled by special forces soldier from feet away, from an manned aircraft thousands of feet in the air, or a pilot in trailer hundreds of miles away.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons. And sometimes the best way to save lives of your people is to bomb other people. That’s very naive. Not all antagonists are rational state actors. Terrorist orgs like…
> And sometimes the best way to save lives of your people is to bomb other people. Hello, it's 2030 calling. Yeah, that recent nasty terror attack? Carried out by people born between 2005 and 2012. They grew up in the wartorn cities of Baghdad, Kabul, in the mountains of Afghanistan, in the little towns hit with little "pinpricks" of drone strikes for the past 20 years because the big brains in the USA thought that "…
There's a great quote by Machiavelli that explains this: "There can be no proper relation between one who is armed and one who is not. Nor it is reasonable to expect that one who is armed will voluntarily obey one who is not."
> Welcome to the endless cycle of violence your myopia brings.
Myopia is thinking the world is nothing but sunshine and lollipops. There are people in this world who's entire existence is based on the destruction of everyone else with a different way of life. ISIS falls into that camp and anything short of utter destruction of them and anyone that gives aid or comfort to them will allow them to continue. A cancer like that needs to be fully excised to prevent it from returning.
> If you think the best way to defeat ISIS and Al Qaeda is by blowing up random people who seem important now is a good plan, then it's going to be a fail.
I never suggested that "blowing up random people" is a good idea. I was making that point that in the interests of saving lives of your own people, it can make sense to bomb (and presumably kill) other people. It's not that there won't be any loss of life. It's that doing so will save lives on your side.
> Al Qaeda and ISIS need to be defeated and expunged by and from CIVILIZATION--their networks dismantled and defunded by detective work, cooperation with local governments, the rule of law, and lots of arrests. They are going to be defeated when the local population is sick of their shit and doesn't believe what they believe. They are going to be defeated when being part of Al Qaeda is a poor alternative in life, because life offers you so much better alternatives, and their ain't shit to be that damn mad about.
Sure it's bombs alone that will solve the problem of Al Qaeda and ISIS. Nor did I suggest that they would. But putting pressure on the locals by splitting the world into "with us or with them" camps isn't that crazy either.
> There won't be Al Qaeda when people chill the fuck out, on all sides.
I can assure you that nobody in either Al Qaeda or ISIS will ever "chill the fuck out". Given the opportunity to maim, hurt, or kill anyone in Western society, or more generally anyone that's not they're specific sub-sect of Sunni Islam, then they will seize on it.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not being flippant. You commented that there might be legitimate reasons to bomb a wedding. Well, there are similar reasons to bomb hospitals etc, yet we don't accept that this should be done. If I misunderstood your original comment, please clarify.
you suggested bombing schools to "prevent future generations of insurgents". You're advocating genocide. You were being flippant but now you're acting innocent over it which belies a fabricated ignorance that is further insulting. Conflict and arms is a complex topic and simplifying it to "just don't kill people lol" is crass at best. Either engage with the arguments or go to a school about to be bombed in this perce…
Edit: In the spirit of reconcilliation, I would like to explain that I didn't accuse you of anything, much less advocating genocide (I don't even think that bombing a school is genocide; infanticide, at scale, maybe- but, genocide? I don't see that).
I felt you are trying to do something extremely risky, to justify killing Y civilians by the number X of combatants that would also be killed. I don't think Y > 0 can ever be morally justified and I don't think that a targeted strike against any number of enemy combatants in a civilian area is, either, no matter the tactical outcome. Dropping bombs on the heads of people going about peacefull activities is just wrong, any way you cut it. Hence my comment- we don't accept the bombing of hospitals, regardless of their tactical value as targets, so why would we accept bombing weddings to kill some terrorists?
It's clear you find the idea of bombing hospitals or schools revolting, yet you're OK with bombing a wedding? I don't understand that.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#390I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…