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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

371–380 of 527 posts

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#371
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

Because better weapons - especially, autonomous weapons - lowers the barriers to starting wars. Instead of starting wars for defense purposes, they get started for resource control reasons, or even for business reasons, for the well-connected.

All wars are about resources.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I believe the only reason American civilians like us have been able to enjoy peace is because we dropped a ton of bombs to blast tiny countries out of the sky and we also have a history of fighting wars not to win, but not to lose. If Americans are willing to sacrifice their people and resources for a tiny country in the middle of nowhere, imagine what they would do to you if you attacked them or their inter…

> I believe the only reason American civilians like us have been able to enjoy peace is because we dropped a ton of bombs to blast tiny countries out of the sky This is completely ludicrous. There is no military threat to the US beyond nukes. Nuclear weapons have obsoleted wars between great powers. Tiny countries are zero threat to the USA. They cannot invade; they can do almost nothing. At best, they can kill a few…

Almost completely true, bioweapons would actually be something certain tiny countries are really good at.

But many have actually signed treaties not to use them (I believe even to not develop certain kinds).

Actually the more advanced our technologies get the bigger the threads.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#373
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, why do Israelis love their army so much? I think to know the answer, but be aware Israel is a very special case for so many reasons. Edit: and the contrary is true, Americans loves their army, and they are all about that "thank you for your service" rhetoric, so perhaps just Israel top that.

Most of Israelis serve in army that gives them an inside perspective of what is Army, how it functions and its goals. Americans see it from the mass media perspective only, which creates the same feelings in people like when non-Israelis see the news on Gaza fighting - very superficial and inducing very strong emotions. IMHO.

>very superficial and inducing very strong emotions. IMHO.

I think spending part of your young adult life participating in the actions and socialisation of an institution, and then living in a society where everyone around you shares that experience, creates far stronger emotional influence on people's judgements than seeing some people you don't know being shot in a far away country.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#374

It isn't wrong of Google to work their country's military. If not Google, some other company will take those contracts. They need to own up the responsibility for their decisions and of course be willing to put on with the media theme that "Google - the company that supplies AI tech to the military with possible usage in war". Denying that is what makes them look even fishier. I already distrust the company for anyth…

Nothing wrong with IBM helping the Nazis count prisoners. If not them, some other company would have taken the contract This absurdly cowardly thinking is how people justify atrocities for money

Treating companies as social personalities is just stupid. Google is a business, and it is there to make money (whilst not damaging itself too much that it goes out of existence). My point is, that Google as a company(their leadership) could choose to work with the military, and even openly build weapons for a country, as long as that motive is public, and bear the hate from public that they are a piece of shit company that whored out to the military.

But, cat calling a company on forums whilst there are other companies that openly build weapons is just useless in my opinion.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#375
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons[1]. If your goal is to systematically rob your population of wealth by dumping insane amounts of money into an otherwise mostly useless industry(you don't really need 12…

> You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons. And sometimes the best way to save lives of your people is to bomb other people. That’s very naive. Not all antagonists are rational state actors. Terrorist orgs like…

> And sometimes the best way to save lives of your people is to bomb other people.

Hello, it's 2030 calling. Yeah, that recent nasty terror attack? Carried out by people born between 2005 and 2012. They grew up in the wartorn cities of Baghdad, Kabul, in the mountains of Afghanistan, in the little towns hit with little "pinpricks" of drone strikes for the past 20 years because the big brains in the USA thought that "BOMBING THEM FIRST" was the best plan. Those young kids who carried out that attack have known nothing but war, while you have known nothing but peace and have the gall to suggest that they and their neighbors should be subject to constant, round-the-clock, death-from-the-sky TERROR. They've known people who got hit by drones. They've known people who were collateral. They've seen the craters. Arms and legs blown off. Brains. Dead bodies. Charred remains. From machines in the sky, operated by people sitting in airconditioned offices half a world away. You don't think they know that? That drone operators sit in airconditioned offices and blow people up? War is fucking hell. And that's been their reality. And our reality has been playing video games. They fucking hate us. God damn, how could they not?

Welcome to the endless cycle of violence your myopia brings.

If you think the best way to defeat ISIS and Al Qaeda is by blowing up random people who seem important now is a good plan, then it's going to be a fail. Al Qaeda and ISIS need to be defeated and expunged by and from CIVILIZATION--their networks dismantled and defunded by detective work, cooperation with local governments, the rule of law, and lots of arrests. They are going to be defeated when the local population is sick of their shit and doesn't believe what they believe. They are going to be defeated when being part of Al Qaeda is a poor alternative in life, because life offers you so much better alternatives, and their ain't shit to be that damn mad about.

There won't be Al Qaeda when people chill the fuck out, on all sides. Instead, everyone has absolutely lost their minds; they are incapable of seeing threats at their true scale. But no, some kind of insanity has taken over the thinking in the military and intelligence agencies where every threat is clear and present, and every single terrorist anywhere is just five days from hitting NYC with a nuclear bomb....

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing wrong with IBM helping the Nazis count prisoners. If not them, some other company would have taken the contract This absurdly cowardly thinking is how people justify atrocities for money

Treating companies as social personalities is just stupid. Google is a business, and it is there to make money (whilst not damaging itself too much that it goes out of existence). My point is, that Google as a company(their leadership) could choose to work with the military, and even openly build weapons for a country, as long as that motive is public, and bear the hate from public that they are a piece of shit compa…

Essentially everything we do on forums is useless, I don’t know why calling a company immoral is any different.

All businesses exist to make money but if the pushback to a publicly perceived immoral act is great enough then they won’t do the immoral things. For example, I can say as a software developer that I would prefer not to work at google over my current employer because I don’t want to do immoral things. I do have a perceived moral outlook of the company’s leadership as a whole and that’s a decision that I can make. Not sure why you seem to think that’s stupid

Also at the end of the day, nobody is absolved of guilt from doing something just because it made them money. That’s possibly the dumbest way to justify doing something as good

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#377

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

It is not necessarily a question of "right" and "wrong" but what are the consequences of people seeing Google as a weapon as opposed to an information service?

If the whole world begins to see Google as a weapon then they will take defensive measures.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#378

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

I think if we were currently fighting the 3rd Reich people might be more for it. But currently the USA has a massive military for no purpose, which is often used to conduct evil, and thus some people do not want to aid it.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#379
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a conflict of interest. The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. We supported them. We cheered them on. We have voluntarily given them all our personal data. Our emails. Our instant messages. Our voices. All of it feeds into their massive database for them to mine. We put our faith into them, in the hopes that they would honor their creed, that they would do no evil. But gradually, that…

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

>What is "evil" about working with the military or developing weapons?

Well, they kill people, see.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#380
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a conflict of interest. The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. We supported them. We cheered them on. We have voluntarily given them all our personal data. Our emails. Our instant messages. Our voices. All of it feeds into their massive database for them to mine. We put our faith into them, in the hopes that they would honor their creed, that they would do no evil. But gradually, that…

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

Soon or later we will find out why it is a bad idea why a company shouldn't be everywhere.

There is a reason why we separated executive, judicativ and legestative.

But that's a lesson to be learned by blood.

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