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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#321

Post by [deleted] »

flatline wrote: post #62
fakescience wrote: post #31

To any Google Employees reading this. Don't worry! There are SEVERAL ways you can reduce any cognitive dissonance you might be experiencing as you read more about the evils your company is committing : + rationalization of your own behavior : "I'm not doing this work...I'm working on projects that help people. And ads. But ads are pretty neutral compared to bombing people." + rationalization of others' behavior : "Bo…

Or accept the reality that we live in a world that feels the need to kill people. I think it would be swell to not need a military but the reality is that we do. If you have qualms about working for Google as a defense contractor, consider the implications of living in the US (or in all likelihood wherever you happen to reside). Can you justify paying your taxes? Can you justify voting for one of a handful of candida…

[deleted]

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#322

Post by [deleted] »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #314
Quarrelsome wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't be so flippant. That's not at all what I was saying.

I'm not being flippant. You commented that there might be legitimate reasons to bomb a wedding. Well, there are similar reasons to bomb hospitals etc, yet we don't accept that this should be done. If I misunderstood your original comment, please clarify.

[deleted]

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#323

Post by nradov »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #288
flatline wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or accept the reality that we live in a world that feels the need to kill people. I think it would be swell to not need a military but the reality is that we do. If you have qualms about working for Google as a defense contractor, consider the implications of living in the US (or in all likelihood wherever you happen to reside). Can you justify paying your taxes? Can you justify voting for one of a handful of candida…

>> Believe me, there are a dozen other large defense contractors out there that will implement this if Google doesn’t, so it’s not like it’s a binary proposition. Or for example, if I don't mug this old lady and take her handbag someone else will. Then again, if I don't do it and you don't do it and nobody else does it, then nobody will do it at all. Same for AI weapons- if nobody makes them there won't be none.

Nobody? The Chinese military industrial complex is certainly developing AI weapons and will sell them to almost any nation state around the world. They're only a few years behind on technology and catching up fast.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#324

Post by Quarrelsome »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #314
Quarrelsome wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't be so flippant. That's not at all what I was saying.

I'm not being flippant. You commented that there might be legitimate reasons to bomb a wedding. Well, there are similar reasons to bomb hospitals etc, yet we don't accept that this should be done. If I misunderstood your original comment, please clarify.

you suggested bombing schools to "prevent future generations of insurgents". You're advocating genocide.

You were being flippant but now you're acting innocent over it which belies a fabricated ignorance that is further insulting.

Conflict and arms is a complex topic and simplifying it to "just don't kill people lol" is crass at best. Either engage with the arguments or go to a school about to be bombed in this perceived reality you've fabricated where I represent your perfect demon to squabble with.

If that wasn't clear enough: I am not fucking advocating genocide.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#325

Post by fiblye »

koolba wrote: post #276
pavelludiq wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons[1]. If your goal is to systematically rob your population of wealth by dumping insane amounts of money into an otherwise mostly useless industry(you don't really need 12…

> You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons. And sometimes the best way to save lives of your people is to bomb other people. That’s very naive. Not all antagonists are rational state actors. Terrorist orgs like…

>And sometimes the best way to save lives of your people is to bomb other people.

Sometimes, yes.

But those "preventative" bombings in recent decades are the very reason those people want to kill those in other countries. They directly say that they're attacking the west as retaliation, but the vast majority of people plug their ears, dismiss them as absolutely crazy and irrational, and say we'll never understand their motives. Maybe if a few weddings weren't bombed there'd be a few less terrorist attacks around the world.

Terrorist orgs like Al Qaeda and ISIS are relatively recent organizations. They didn't evolve in a bubble. They evolved in a place struggling with the damage of foreign intervention. To many people there, it's irrational not to support the group that opposes the what seems to be (and when looked at objectively) nonsensical intervention between two outside forces. The shit stirring there started as an attempt to push out Soviet influence. The mess in Syria continuing because Russia wants a sphere of influence and the west can't have that.

The tendency of dismissing enemies as irrational is the problem here. Groups don't grow so large with a complete lack of rationality. They have just enough that they persuade a considerable number of people, but they eventually go off the rails.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#326

Post by nerdponx »

ihsw2 wrote: post #317
azag0 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll just copy-paste a comment (not mine) from a different subthread: “This all-or-nothing approach to morality is stupid. Just because not every decision in your life may be 100% morally justifiable, that does not mean “throw all ethics over board”.”

This further reinforces the notion that the modern left has embraced essentialism, moralization, and Utopian ideology: * reducing people to (for example and more commonly than ever) ethnic and religious identities * turning every issue into a moral issue where decisions are separated into right and wrong with a distinct lack of nuance and thoughtful consideration * attacking those that don't share in your Utopian ide…

I don't think this represents all or even most of the modern left. Just like on the right, the vocal minority seems to have taken the spotlight.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#327

Post by noetic_techy »

globuous wrote: post #258
fakescience wrote: post #31

To any Google Employees reading this. Don't worry! There are SEVERAL ways you can reduce any cognitive dissonance you might be experiencing as you read more about the evils your company is committing : + rationalization of your own behavior : "I'm not doing this work...I'm working on projects that help people. And ads. But ads are pretty neutral compared to bombing people." + rationalization of others' behavior : "Bo…

Sure. But then, if you live in the "west", please realize the cost of turning on your light bulb or driving your car or wearing your shoes, or turning on the AC, or buying frozen meat. Realize the cost our lifestyle imposes on people elsewhere. The regimes that are protected and the lives we ruin in exchange for us being able to live the lifestyle that we have. Please don't make me say what I didn't. I'm just asking,…

> Sure. But then, if you live in the "west", please realize the cost of turning on your light bulb or driving your car or wearing your shoes, or turning on the AC, or buying frozen meat. Realize the cost our lifestyle imposes on people elsewhere. The regimes that are protected and the lives we ruin in exchange for us being able to live the lifestyle that we have.

Ah the old veiled blame capitalism and blame the west argument. Except for the fact that capitalism has been nothing but a boon for the entire globe, even the non-westerners, and that western traditions and values (which are not necessarily coupled to capitalism) have been instrumental in introducing ideas and institutions that have freed a lot people globally for the first time in all human history.

Capitalism overall has been nothing but a force of good for the world:

- The number of people living in extreme poverty worldwide declined by 80 percent from 1970 to 2006.

- Poverty worldwide included 94 percent of the world's population in 1820. In 2011, it was only 17 percent.

- Globally, those in the lower and middle income brackets saw increases in pay of 40 percent from 1988 to 2008.

- The world is 120 times better off today than in 1800 as a result of capitalism.

- Mortality rates for children under the age of five declined by 49 percent from 1990 to 2013.

Doesn't sound like its ruining too many lives to me. All those people should feel terrible though? Do you think the non-western Chinese sit around and pine about how terrible their people/culture is for turning on lights, wearing shoes, and enjoying climate controlled spaces? No they don't, and they shouldn't, because its ridiculously naive point of view on the world. Instead they are proud of what they've accomplished. Meanwhile some in the west are sitting at Starbucks on their mac books or smart phones whining about how terrible the "west" is while checking to see if their steady paycheck was direct deposited before they uber back to their furnished home or apartment, all without being arrested by secret police for their negative post upon arrival. Fancy that.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#328

Post by nerdponx »

fakescience wrote: post #31

To any Google Employees reading this. Don't worry! There are SEVERAL ways you can reduce any cognitive dissonance you might be experiencing as you read more about the evils your company is committing : + rationalization of your own behavior : "I'm not doing this work...I'm working on projects that help people. And ads. But ads are pretty neutral compared to bombing people." + rationalization of others' behavior : "Bo…

The convenient part is that many Google employees are already experts at 1-3, since they've been working on mass public surveillance for years.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#329

Post by YCode »

Sharlin wrote: post #220
manigandham wrote: post #212

The world runs on violence. It's the fundamental force that keeps things in order. Modern society with all its rules and laws is nothing without enforcement, which is ultimately delivered via a monopoly license granted to the government with its military and police to keep everyone else safe and free. Being the best at deploying violence is how you defend against the chaos elsewhere. This isn't about "evil corporatio…

> You either stay ahead or lose the war before it's ever begun. We must be able to do better than that. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

Yes and no. It's true, we ought to find ways to work together that rely on concepts like mutually assured stability instead of MAD.

And there's evidence of altruism's superiority even on a biological level. There are some species of bacteria that when they run out of food will form a protective spore to wait for better times or form a stalk to move to a new location to find food. Those whose bodies form the base of these structures are effectively sacrificed, even if they aren't intelligent enough to be aware of the act.

That said, it's simply undeniable that at the end of the day the force is the intrinsic and most rudimentary base of everything society has become.

Public parks, schools, social welfare programs, etc... All founded on a platform of violence and murder against anyone who challenges their authority.

To deny that is folly.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#330

Post by AsyncAwait »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #306
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I don't think its that simple. Weddings may constitute a collection of individuals key to a war effort and in striking a wedding one might prevent the devastation of a prolonged conflict. Same for a hospital (patching up wounded enemy combatants) or a school (educating future insurgents). Or a nursery, football stadium, shopping mall, etc etc...

don't be so flippant. That's not at all what I was saying.

You were suggesting killing civilians, in order to may be get a 'bad guy', which amounts to a war crime.
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