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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#301

Post by SCHiM »

koolba wrote: post #276
pavelludiq wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons[1]. If your goal is to systematically rob your population of wealth by dumping insane amounts of money into an otherwise mostly useless industry(you don't really need 12…

> You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons. And sometimes the best way to save lives of your people is to bomb other people. That’s very naive. Not all antagonists are rational state actors. Terrorist orgs like…

Mostly, I think a 'terrorist' can be a rational person. If you know for a fact that the USA killed one or multiple people from your family; when you live in fear of clear skies as a male of military age, and as insult to injury (if you're rich enough to know about it all) know that those responsible for your fear and loss say that _you_ are the bad guy. Well, I can very clearly understand the hatred some people feel towards the west/usa/nato.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#302

Post by weber111 »

slg wrote: post #161
eksemplar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the people who build the Death Star are innocent? The guilty don’t feel guilty, they learn not to. I wouldn’t personally want to work in weapons development, but I certainly wouldn’t want to work in weapons development for a military that as a result of its offensive use of its weapons is making children in the third world afraid of blue skies. But I have a gmail and I use google maps, so I’m not really in a posit…

I know you are being a little facetious with the Death Star line, but I think that bares a distinction because it would be a WMD and part of its intended purpose is to kill civilians. Likewise in our world developing indiscriminate killing WMDs like bio-weapons deserves extra scrutiny. Drones are not indiscriminate killing machines any more than manned aircraft. If they are used indiscriminately, the problem should b…

Regrettably, in the world as it is, we need--extraordinarily--competent people working on our weapons of mass destruction, too (in particular, nuclear command and control). Not a job I'd want, and not one I'm happy exists, but one I'm sure grateful someone is doing.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#303

Post by mrep »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #91
bb88 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the military contracts are really lucrative. Many are worth billions on their face. Performing well on a 9 million dollar contract opens the door to larger contracts.

Isn't this, in itself, a huge problem? Shouldn't public service be a low margin project? Could the fact that military contracts are so needlessly "lucrative" (despite the government having a literal monopoly on who you can sell advanced weaponry to) be why such a huge margin of your taxes go to defense?

Eh, government contracts come with all sorts of red tape that make that "lucrative" contract not so good once all the hidden costs are considered.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#304

Post by barrkel »

koolba wrote: post #276
pavelludiq wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons[1]. If your goal is to systematically rob your population of wealth by dumping insane amounts of money into an otherwise mostly useless industry(you don't really need 12…

> You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons. And sometimes the best way to save lives of your people is to bomb other people. That’s very naive. Not all antagonists are rational state actors. Terrorist orgs like…

The single easiest way to create terrorists is to invade another country. Terrorism is a law enforcement problem, it is not a military problem.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#305

Post by Lennie »

koolba wrote: post #276
pavelludiq wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons[1]. If your goal is to systematically rob your population of wealth by dumping insane amounts of money into an otherwise mostly useless industry(you don't really need 12…

> You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons. And sometimes the best way to save lives of your people is to bomb other people. That’s very naive. Not all antagonists are rational state actors. Terrorist orgs like…

You do realize that the actions of the US ended up creating both Al Qaeda and ISIS, right ?

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#306

Post by Quarrelsome »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #285
Quarrelsome wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think its that simple. Weddings may constitute a collection of individuals key to a war effort and in striking a wedding one might prevent the devastation of a prolonged conflict. Also Middle Eastern weddings can occasionally be mis-interpreted as militant given the propensity for arms fire in celebration. If a drone strike hit an American wedding they would ground their _home_ fleet. Its a key difference. Th…

>> I don't think its that simple. Weddings may constitute a collection of individuals key to a war effort and in striking a wedding one might prevent the devastation of a prolonged conflict. Same for a hospital (patching up wounded enemy combatants) or a school (educating future insurgents). Or a nursery, football stadium, shopping mall, etc etc...

don't be so flippant. That's not at all what I was saying.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#307

Post by annabellish »

fsloth wrote: post #265
annabellish wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the theory, yes, and to a point it's even true, but the US military is _not_ being used in this way. There is no challenger for "ultimate political power" within the US region. Their spending and investment is well beyond what is necessary to keep up with the "competition", of which there is effectively none. It is merely the continual expansion and growth of an already vastly overqualified force which hasn't…

"the US military is _not_ being used in this way." I agree to a point. US is "hooked" to war as it feeds the profits and the subsidies of the military industrial complex. Especially in the eastern mediterranean area and middle east US escapades have been hugely destabilizing. However, given the current world stage in total with such jolly players with extraterritorial ambitions as Russia and China, I would much prefe…

>This is anything but clear cut.

Definitely agreed.

For our current world conditions to hold stable it is important that at least one of our rich, basically politically aligned western countries has a worldwide military force. The US military has gone way past merely that point, however, and that is the point at which this starts getting "evil".

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#309

Post by Lennie »

slg wrote: post #140
mattnewton wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they oppose the drone warfare program, which is killing noncombatants in nominally allied countries. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_561fafe2e4b028dd7ea6c4ff https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-oba... It’s not the military that is evil, it’s this particular program in the eyes of many. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-24557333 Disclaimer: I am also fortunate to work at Google an…

>Because they oppose the drone warfare program, which is killing noncombatants in nominally allied countries. I don't understand this logic. Drones are a weapon. They are not any more evil than any other weapon that the military uses. They aren't killing people autonomously. There is a human pilot behind every death. The pilot just happens to be hundreds or thousands miles away from the aircraft. Would we be fine wit…

"there is a human pilot behind every death."

That statement won't last long term.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#310

Post by barrkel »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

Google is a multi-national company. Why should it have allegiance to the US? Just because it was founded and has headquarters somewhere doesn't mean that it needs to be loyal to that place. Look at how quickly Banco Sabadell and CaixaBank moved out of Catalonia after the separatist movement started causing ructions. Do you think that staying on Trump's side is in the best interest of a multi-national?

Don't forget, there's another side to building weapons: the better your weapons, the lower your threshold for starting a war. AI weapons are especially dangerous: they permit politicians to start wars without risking citizen's lives, thus reducing the natural incentive in democracies to avoid war. Now put that power in the reins of Trump. Does it sound good?

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