I wouldn't blame Google for this. It's sole purpose is to make money. So they make money wherever they can.
People voted for a government that bombs other people, that's a consequence.
Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
261–270 of 527 posts
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#262I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…
Maybe if there be one US AI company would be ok, but Google is a world wide company that has it's tentacles in many things.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
So the people who build the Death Star are innocent? The guilty don’t feel guilty, they learn not to. I wouldn’t personally want to work in weapons development, but I certainly wouldn’t want to work in weapons development for a military that as a result of its offensive use of its weapons is making children in the third world afraid of blue skies. But I have a gmail and I use google maps, so I’m not really in a posit…
I know you are being a little facetious with the Death Star line, but I think that bares a distinction because it would be a WMD and part of its intended purpose is to kill civilians. Likewise in our world developing indiscriminate killing WMDs like bio-weapons deserves extra scrutiny. Drones are not indiscriminate killing machines any more than manned aircraft. If they are used indiscriminately, the problem should b…
It’s “purpose” is to protect the empire - it is a tool.
It’s intended as a deterrent.
Repeat indefinitely for all “tools”
(There’s an entire subreddit dedicated to it. The empire did nothing wrong)
You can Always justify making a bigger better gun or “tool”.
Don’t make tools you wouldn’t want used against you.
Tech engineers in particular are more than normally exposed to the ideas of weapons and responsibility of creators for their creations.
Dodging that is the opposite of being a coder/nerd.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#264To any Google Employees reading this. Don't worry! There are SEVERAL ways you can reduce any cognitive dissonance you might be experiencing as you read more about the evils your company is committing : + rationalization of your own behavior : "I'm not doing this work...I'm working on projects that help people. And ads. But ads are pretty neutral compared to bombing people." + rationalization of others' behavior : "Bo…
Or accept the reality that we live in a world that feels the need to kill people. I think it would be swell to not need a military but the reality is that we do. If you have qualms about working for Google as a defense contractor, consider the implications of living in the US (or in all likelihood wherever you happen to reside). Can you justify paying your taxes? Can you justify voting for one of a handful of candida…
You need a military in order to prevent other people from bombing your country. You absolutely do not need to bomb other people, and if fact if your goal is to not get bombed, not bombing other people might be your best option for a bunch of reasons[1]. If your goal is to systematically rob your population of wealth by dumping insane amounts of money into an otherwise mostly useless industry(you don't really need 12 carriers to defend your country for example, they are mostly useless for defense), bombing other people is a good option.
[1] not making additional enemies, not setting the precedent that it's ok to bomb people, not driving away allies, not undermining your narrative that you're a good guy and therefore attacking you is unjustifiable, etc. These are just off the top of my head.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
"There are still some of us who believe in peace as an end-goal for us humans" I'm sorry, but I think in our current world historical evidence is stacked against you. Humans are a political species. The ultimate form of political power within a specified region is to have the most capability for the violence within the region. Hence, if a nation state would secede all capability for violence it would effectively yiel…
This is the theory, yes, and to a point it's even true, but the US military is _not_ being used in this way. There is no challenger for "ultimate political power" within the US region. Their spending and investment is well beyond what is necessary to keep up with the "competition", of which there is effectively none. It is merely the continual expansion and growth of an already vastly overqualified force which hasn't…
"the US military is _not_ being used in this way."
I agree to a point. US is "hooked" to war as it feeds the profits and the subsidies of the military industrial complex. Especially in the eastern mediterranean area and middle east US escapades have been hugely destabilizing.
However, given the current world stage in total with such jolly players with extraterritorial ambitions as Russia and China, I would much prefer that US was ready to aggressively project force than not. As a counterbalance.
Especially as I live in Finland, I much prefer having US backed Nato force as a counterbalance to which ever clique in Kremlin has control of the Russian military antics.
This is anything but clear cut.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, the arguments you outline would also be ways to reduce cognitive dissonance as well ("if we didn't do it, others would"). I don't think Google would stop all wars by not contributing to this project. But Google, and the employees who work at Google, has power - a kind of power that's very, very different from my power as an individual when paying taxes or when voting for a federal employee (behaviors that create…
I basically agree with the last points. As to the drone strikes, I believe there is potential there for decent things. Who is to say these would not grant the power to stop a war by executing key individuals in a scenario where a manned strike would be prohibitive? And yet there is a clear moral hazard of facilitating murder. I’m not wise enough to see where the balance lies. I choose not to work on projects like tha…
> I’m not wise enough to see where the balance lies.
Oh, there is actually a very clearcut line for this; it's coincisively described by the following headline:
"If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding, We'd Ground Our Fleet"[⁰]
[⁰] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/12/if-a-dr...
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because they oppose the drone warfare program, which is killing noncombatants in nominally allied countries. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_561fafe2e4b028dd7ea6c4ff https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-oba... It’s not the military that is evil, it’s this particular program in the eyes of many. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-24557333 Disclaimer: I am also fortunate to work at Google an…
>Because they oppose the drone warfare program, which is killing noncombatants in nominally allied countries. I don't understand this logic. Drones are a weapon. They are not any more evil than any other weapon that the military uses. They aren't killing people autonomously. There is a human pilot behind every death. The pilot just happens to be hundreds or thousands miles away from the aircraft. Would we be fine wit…
> There is a human pilot behind every death.
Google's work will now ensure that there won't be. Even with a 100% sure target identifier, it will now correctly hit the right target just as much as it correctly demonetizes youtube videos.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because it is a conflict of interest. The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. We supported them. We cheered them on. We have voluntarily given them all our personal data. Our emails. Our instant messages. Our voices. All of it feeds into their massive database for them to mine. We put our faith into them, in the hopes that they would honor their creed, that they would do no evil. But gradually, that…
Not to blame you but : >>> The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. who's fault is it ?
Lol, this can be fun-
Attempt 1) googles fault! They made an awesome product! (and even promised at the start that they “won’t be evil”.)
Attempt 2) the govts fault! They didn’t stop these firms from cornering the whole market! I don’t care that the govt isn’t prescient!
Attempt 3) my fault! I was not able to withstand or educate myself to deal with the massive amount of technological manipulation and awesome product design thrown my way!
I think blame is a non workable concept here.
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, the arguments you outline would also be ways to reduce cognitive dissonance as well ("if we didn't do it, others would"). I don't think Google would stop all wars by not contributing to this project. But Google, and the employees who work at Google, has power - a kind of power that's very, very different from my power as an individual when paying taxes or when voting for a federal employee (behaviors that create…
I basically agree with the last points. As to the drone strikes, I believe there is potential there for decent things. Who is to say these would not grant the power to stop a war by executing key individuals in a scenario where a manned strike would be prohibitive? And yet there is a clear moral hazard of facilitating murder. I’m not wise enough to see where the balance lies. I choose not to work on projects like tha…
Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially
#270Why US citizens hate their army so much? All i know is that if google announced it's working with our army on some AI projects, the response would be overwhelmingly positive, and people would praise Google for that.
(I'm from Israel if you're wondering)
And I think US are a minority in that the citizens despise their own government and army this much. Which really makes you wonder what's the whole point of democracy if you trust your own elected officials less than Russians trust their corrupted monarch.