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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#241

Post by gnulinux »

cheschire wrote: post #209
paganel wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is "evil" about working with the military or developing weapons? In case your question is serious: There are still some of us who believe in peace as an end-goal for us humans, as a race. See Kant's "Perpetual Peace: A Philosophical Sketch" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_Peace:_A_Philosophic... ) for a more detailed view on the subject. "Working with the military or developing weapons" are two activ…

The military's purpose in modern times is not to bring peace, it is to preserve peace. I find it an important distinction, as "bringing" peace sounds like the military's purpose is to force outsiders who may be viewed as unpeaceful to adopt new culture which is viewed as more peaceful. To "preserve" peace implies, at least to me, that the military is focused on the peace of the home population, and may take action el…

> "bringing" peace sounds like the military's purpose is to force outsiders who may be viewed as unpeaceful to adopt new culture which is viewed as more peaceful.

You mean exactly like US Military did in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria due to "terrorism" and in various Central/South American countries due to "communism"? Bush specifically supported US "bringing" (his words) peace and democracy to the Middle East.

This is not even the point. You're just reasoning very poorly. You found one "good" aspect of massive armies and then showed it as evidence of their non-evilness. But if you think more, you can see that massive armies can easily do bad to the world. The fact that they haven't done yet (which, they did) does not change this fact. If tomorrow US turns into the Fire Nation, you cannot stop it, I cannot stop it, no one can.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#242

Post by timavr »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

They are multinational companies. If they want to move HQ to another country, they can do it any day. Happens all the time.

It is question of ethics and values. Plenty of companies and people were totally fine profiting from holocaust.

US is killing thousands of people in countries we are not in war with with no trial.

In my opinion everyone in the world should have the same rights as us. Otherwise it is just hypocricy and we just live a huge lie.

How would anyone feel in America if somebody was killed without trial by foreign nation?

Also this behaviour long term is completely self defeating. Military wise nukes make everyone equal? Are we planning to keep nukes out of hands of our enemies for centuries or we just planning to kill everyone who is against our policies?

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#243

Post by singularity2001 »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

"I don't see anything wrong"

Maybe you see if, you substitute 'military' for it's historic contributions to mankind: "I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping «an organization that is specialized in killing and very likely to perform torture, rape and genocide»"

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#244

Post by [deleted] »

rifung wrote: post #103
blackrock wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a conflict of interest. The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. We supported them. We cheered them on. We have voluntarily given them all our personal data. Our emails. Our instant messages. Our voices. All of it feeds into their massive database for them to mine. We put our faith into them, in the hopes that they would honor their creed, that they would do no evil. But gradually, that…

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

[deleted]

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#245

Post by saiya-jin »

rifung wrote: post #103
blackrock wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a conflict of interest. The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. We supported them. We cheered them on. We have voluntarily given them all our personal data. Our emails. Our instant messages. Our voices. All of it feeds into their massive database for them to mine. We put our faith into them, in the hopes that they would honor their creed, that they would do no evil. But gradually, that…

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

> What is "evil" about working with the military or developing weapons?

Your lack of any morality doesn't cast a good light neither on you nor your employer, but at this point, I am not surprised anymore.

But in case you are actually honest, brief explanation - US military indeed has evil aspects, consistently, over last 60 years. Perspective changes vastly whether you live in US or not though. It's a emotionless machine that killed tens millions of innocent civilians for no good reason nor any clear victory (Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc). In cold blood, for profit, political games that clearly achieved nothing apart from hundred of billions spent on military equipment that makes the owners of those companies very happy.

You can have US-centric view that any human life is worth next to nothing simply because he/she doesn't have a US passport. Well, we can and as a mankind should do better.

And google is willingly becoming part of this, just to have a bit of extra profit. 'Don't do evil' is indeed a very bad joke in this perspective. I am becoming done with that company for various reasons mentioned in this thread. I don't care how good the products are, I am never going to support it in any way. Simply because my money would contribute to this behavior. I know I am just a single customer, so are all the others.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#246

Post by giancarlostoro »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

The issue is taking engineers who likely NEVER signed up for military work ("that's not in my job description!") at your company and throwing them at military contracts. If Google wants to pursue this they should either hire experienced government contractors (who have the benefit of existing government clearance) or Alphabet should spin up (whether buy or create / fund) a government contractor focused on this sort of thing. It would likely yield better results given the types of resources Google has available. But don't just expect someone whose never done government work who might not want to to just roll over and do it if you force it upon them.

Disclaimer: I work as a government contractor unrelated to Google but I chose the type of company to work for based on the TYPE of work they do. If I don't wanna build kill drones I don't work for companies known to do weapons or related engineering.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#247

Post by [deleted] »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

[deleted]

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#248

Post by [deleted] »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

[deleted]

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#249

Post by v-yadli »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

so you want Google to do it with pride in WWIII?

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#250

Post by ionised »

rifung wrote: post #103
blackrock wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a conflict of interest. The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. We supported them. We cheered them on. We have voluntarily given them all our personal data. Our emails. Our instant messages. Our voices. All of it feeds into their massive database for them to mine. We put our faith into them, in the hopes that they would honor their creed, that they would do no evil. But gradually, that…

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

Because the drone program is highly unethical and responsible for the killing of countless civilians?
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