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Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

theintercept.com

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Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#111

Post by johnchristopher »

mrtksn wrote: post #95
strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

April 2004: We will machine-read your e-mails so that we can show you banners more efficiently. No funny business, we promise. We also collect all kind of data about you, even offline data but no biggie. April 2018: We developed all that technology by reading your e-mails and analysing your daily life, now we will make military gear with all the expertise we know about the world and the human population so that polit…

> PS: We control the information flow, we can start and stop political conflicts by selectively displaying information [..]

I see that claim thrown around a lot but nothing ever backs that up.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#112

Post by TeMPOraL »

Cookingboy wrote: post #87
strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

I kind of agree actually. Humanity has always been at conflict with each other and will be for the foreseeable future. But for the first time in history we have the tools to conduct intense warfare yet limit collateral damages and minimize cost in both human and material resources. The engineers who worked on precision strike weapons/smart bombs should be applauded instead of ostracized, in the past we'd just carpet…

I have mixed feelings here. On the one hand, you're correct about reduction of collateral damage.

On the other hand, weapons of old were used as part of actual wars. Precise weaponry seems to be making it too easy to kill off people without starting a war - like the US is doing with its drone strikes - which means it'll happen more. Also, I fear that the limit of precision strike weapons is being able to swiftly kill an arbitrary target anywhere, for cheap - which opens the way for ethnic cleansing, killing off political opponents, people harboring thoughts inconvenient to powerful people, etc.

Ultimately, I think precision weapons are better than blunt ones, but their development needs to happen in lock step with development of protection technologies - mostly social technologies, that would ensure those weapons can't be arbitrarily used by random politicians or countries without consequence. Unfortunately, it seems that in the last decades we've been losing social technologies - like the rule of law and trust in it.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#113

Post by AlexCoventry »

rifung wrote: post #103
blackrock wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a conflict of interest. The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. We supported them. We cheered them on. We have voluntarily given them all our personal data. Our emails. Our instant messages. Our voices. All of it feeds into their massive database for them to mine. We put our faith into them, in the hopes that they would honor their creed, that they would do no evil. But gradually, that…

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

> What is "evil" about working with the military or developing weapons?

If you work on weapons which are then used to kill people, you are complicit in those murders.

AI automation of weapons and surveillance systems is probably going to kill a large fraction of living humans. I'm not talking skynet, just about automation we could easily achieve right now. Anyone who works on those systems will be complicit in the subsequent genocides.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#114

Post by pera »

strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

During WWII Siemens owned a factory in Auschwitz and manufactured electrical parts for concentration camps and death camps.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#115

Post by mark_edward »

smt88 wrote: post #93
zeth___ wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is directly and indirectly responsible for more civilian death than any other coutry since the cold war ended. Basic human decency should be the answer to why you shouldn't help kill even more.

I think you should read some stats on Syria and get back to us.

I think you should read some stats on Korea or Vietnam and get back to me

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#117

Post by TeMPOraL »

jonnybgood wrote: post #63
toweringgoat wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rest of the world vehemently disagrees. Which should be more than enough to know it's not good.

The rest of the world actually doesn't disagree. Just look at what countries supported and participated in US conflicts. And there are countries who don't support openly, but behind the scenes with intelligence and logistics.

Because the US also happens to dominate the global economy for now. Soldiers from my country went to help the US in Iraq and Afghanistan too, and we all know why - because the country needs to suck up to US to strengthen its position relative to the neighbors. Moral reasoning didn't even enter the picture.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#118

Post by mattnewton »

rifung wrote: post #103
blackrock wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a conflict of interest. The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. We supported them. We cheered them on. We have voluntarily given them all our personal data. Our emails. Our instant messages. Our voices. All of it feeds into their massive database for them to mine. We put our faith into them, in the hopes that they would honor their creed, that they would do no evil. But gradually, that…

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

Because they oppose the drone warfare program, which is killing noncombatants in nominally allied countries.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_561fafe2e4b028dd7ea6c4ff

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-oba...

It’s not the military that is evil, it’s this particular program in the eyes of many.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-24557333

Disclaimer: I am also fortunate to work at Google and my opinions are my own.

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#119

Post by aresant »

blackrock wrote: post #98
strooper wrote: post #58

I don't see anything wrong for a company of a particular country helping their military. GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi and all tech giants of that era did that with pride during WWII. Then why can't Google, Facebook for USA? Perhaps the illusion of globalization is making us perceive Google, Facebook and other international giants as global companies. Although, geniuses from around the world have significant contributions…

Because it is a conflict of interest. The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. We supported them. We cheered them on. We have voluntarily given them all our personal data. Our emails. Our instant messages. Our voices. All of it feeds into their massive database for them to mine. We put our faith into them, in the hopes that they would honor their creed, that they would do no evil. But gradually, that…

"By doing the military's bidding, then Google is now far scarier than Microsoft ever was."

I understand your point, but Microsoft does an awful lot of business with the military.

Last year they won a contract to put every employee in the DOD on Win 10(1).

Not sure it's particularly MORE evil for Google to supply AI support to the Military than for Microsoft to enable the office drones systematically organize weapon shipments, troop deployments, manage body counts, etc.

(1) https://www.geekwire.com/2016/microsoft-wins-927m-support-co...

Re: Leaked Emails Show Google Expected Military Drone AI Work to Grow Exponentially

#120

Post by TangoTrotFox »

rifung wrote: post #103
blackrock wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is a conflict of interest. The public has put their trust into Google for 20 years. We supported them. We cheered them on. We have voluntarily given them all our personal data. Our emails. Our instant messages. Our voices. All of it feeds into their massive database for them to mine. We put our faith into them, in the hopes that they would honor their creed, that they would do no evil. But gradually, that…

> There is nothing that will stop this. The military will find a defense contractor to do their bidding. But Google can voluntarily elect to remove themselves from this sector. Let some other company do it. Let someone else figure it out. The blood of dead innocent civilians will be on their hands. You don't see Raytheon, Boeing, or Northrop crying about it. I work at Google but opinions are my own. This is actually…

I tend to agree with you, but as a question when would you picture the actions of the US military indeed becoming an overall negative on society? And then at which point would enhancing said capabilities itself also then become undesirable?

It's a tricky question since a strong military is obviously necessary to protect a nation, yet at the same time - our military's purpose has long since shifted from defensive to offensive - and those offensive actions have been of very dubious value at extreme cost, both monetary and in the loss of life inflicted and suffered.

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